I like the programmers on here telling the professional users that Excel is overblown and they could just use Numbers, OpenOffice or Google sheets. Imagine an accountant coming on here and telling you that you don't need vi, emacs, sublime text or VSCode. You certainly don't need your IDEs. After all it's perfectly possible to code in Notepad. You also don't need your languages. BASIC was perfectly good. The killer f…
The reason of excel excelling in being everywhere, is mostly that it has an easy learning curve and it presents itself in the form of 2D tables, like kids have learning to understand early in primary school. Also its VBA macros make it easy to start programming. If your ERP outputs are in Excel, I guess pdf or csv or html could have been chosen as well, since those are also constants in the world?
'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
151–160 of 377 posts
Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hate it so much... some programs are even worse, they don't take ctrl shift v to get rid of the garbage. I've made it a habit to first paste stuff in a text editor, copy it again, and then paste it into programs like outlook so the formatting won't be all messed up... Still don't know of a single case where the "feature" was useful.
PowerPoint Paste with source formatting or theme, I can't recall the exact name right now, rules. It means being able to mooch slides from any file and use them with no real fuss. An alternative is to turn the slide into a bitmap.
Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
#153I have my personal weekly budget spreadsheet open on my laptop at all times. I balance my checking account almost daily to know where all the money is going. I did pay for Monarch to see if it would be better and although it’s nice, Excel is still just better. One of my favorite tabs is taking a high interest loan or credit card and increasing the payment amounts (even a little) to reduce the overall impact of the in…
What does Excel do here that Google Sheets doesn’t? I don’t always carry my laptop with me, so local files are kind of annoying.
Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those feelings are nice, but Excel in most context is just a liability. The intersection where a spreadsheet is the right tool for the job, and the job is performed by someone who doesn't have many options is pretty small. In business cases, the risk with home grown spreadsheet 'workflows' is pretty big, and in home usage cases you don't really need more than just a basic spreadsheet. The intersection is perhaps wher…
> Excel specifically is an example of "they just don't know any better", just like the everything-is-a-nail example (where Excel is the hammer and every problem looks like a spreadsheet). ... It's not that the sending and receiving didn't work at all, or that the software or the people are bad, it's just a really shitty "solution" that shouldn't be glorified and be seen as the failure to educate that it is. This is a…
No it isn't. This is MY take and I'm not an elitist software engineer.
> People building on Excel isn't a result of failure to educate, it's humans doing what humans do best—automating their own workload.
No, it isn't. It is human behaviour alright, but it's cutting corners because it feels better to do what you already know instead of doing what was instructed. This is what we see in businesses from 100 to 1000 people happening time after time.
Example: if you need to visualise your data from multiple sources company-wide, we'd have Tableau (and training, access, templates, portals etc) for example. That means you do it there as per instruction, and you don't go trying to setup some home-brew graph in excel that you manually regenerate every day and forget to generate when you are on vacation.
> It's people using general-purpose computers as general-purpose computers. It's the closest to the personal computing dream that we've come, and likely the closest we ever will.
Sure, do whatever you want at home, no discussion there. But since I already specifically wrote that, I suppose we don't need to keep repeating that.
> The alternative in the real world isn't "everyone learns Python", it's "we lock normal business people out of computing and keep it in the hands of the trained and very expensive software engineers".
No, it's not. The alternative is follow the workflows your teams and BUs have established and don't go off on your own. It works, it's proven, it's highly effective and attracts talent as a bonus.
> That's not going to happen, and it's frankly not something we should want to happen.
Maybe not where you are, but it's definitely happening here. And we want it to happen because the amount of data and the types of data don't work with excel. And the way people have tried to work around it by doing sampling and then saying "but it works on my machine" when it inevitably fails is a waste of time.
> I think this kind of Excel denigration comes up so often in software forums because we're usually called in to rescue a business when their Excel workflow gets completely unmanageable.
Perhaps, but what I wrote isn't Excel denigration, or denigration in general, it's real world scenarios where Excel wasn't the solution and people found out too late because they didn't know any better and they thought they were doing the right thing. Heck, replace excel with spreadsheet or 'workstation-based' and you have the same issue.
> We miss the decades that the company ran very successfully without any software engineers on the payroll and see the giant spaghetti mess that made them finally decide it was worth the cost.
You must have forgotten mainframes along the way, that's where the actual money was made, not spreadsheets. And if you create a 'spaghetti mess', that is something you can do perfectly fine with Excel, Access or just plain pen and paper. Creating a mess is at the core of end-user deficiencies when it comes to using a spreadsheet for non-spreadsheet problems.
> But it's important to remember that these same businesses reached the point where they could afford to pay us to build something custom by building a successful business on top of Excel.
No, it's not. It's important to remember that older software was written to emulate the physical world, but that was also what created boundaries and limitations. Desktops, folders, spreadsheets, word processors, rolodexes, telephones, paper mail etc. are not the 'best' solution, it just happened to be what was used when software was written. The software emulated the processes that existed to make it easier to understand what it means and how to use it for the people of that era. Practically everything has evolved beyond that, to the point where you have to educate new hires on what a file and folder structure is about if you're using those at work. Just like you have to educate older people that the way they used to do things is no longer how we do it today.
In some ways, Excel is the COBOL of our generation. And that is not a good thing.
Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
#155I like the programmers on here telling the professional users that Excel is overblown and they could just use Numbers, OpenOffice or Google sheets. Imagine an accountant coming on here and telling you that you don't need vi, emacs, sublime text or VSCode. You certainly don't need your IDEs. After all it's perfectly possible to code in Notepad. You also don't need your languages. BASIC was perfectly good. The killer f…
Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nearly everyone who knows how to use a computer knows how to use Excel to some extent. That is a feature of Excel that pretty much no other software solution can bring to the table.
I would contend that any user that can use Excel could pick up e.g. Google sheets instantly, especially in an audit capability where you want to scan the data (and view a couple formulae) rather than craft it from scratch.
Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
#157I like the programmers on here telling the professional users that Excel is overblown and they could just use Numbers, OpenOffice or Google sheets. Imagine an accountant coming on here and telling you that you don't need vi, emacs, sublime text or VSCode. You certainly don't need your IDEs. After all it's perfectly possible to code in Notepad. You also don't need your languages. BASIC was perfectly good. The killer f…
If I build a financial model, the 60 year old CFO needs to be able to understand it and agree with it.
One other aspect is all of the shortcuts and hot keys. If you switched to a different software you’d have to relearn shortcuts that you have been using for several years.
Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would temper your hot take. Nothing you described is a feature specific to Excel from what I can tell, and using Excel in front of an ERP is most likely an anti-pattern as the ERP is meant to handle reporting and authorization in a centralized way.
Nearly everyone who knows how to use a computer knows how to use Excel to some extent. That is a feature of Excel that pretty much no other software solution can bring to the table.
I used to export to csv and use perl whenever I had to manipulate data. These days I even import to an sqlite database and use either the sqlite cli (or ruby).
Thanksfully I don't have to deal with excel files all too often.
Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
What does Excel do here that Google Sheets doesn’t? I don’t always carry my laptop with me, so local files are kind of annoying.
You can use Excel in the exact same way with Microsoft 365.
Re: 'I grew up with it': readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
#160I have my personal weekly budget spreadsheet open on my laptop at all times. I balance my checking account almost daily to know where all the money is going. I did pay for Monarch to see if it would be better and although it’s nice, Excel is still just better. One of my favorite tabs is taking a high interest loan or credit card and increasing the payment amounts (even a little) to reduce the overall impact of the in…
What does Excel do here that Google Sheets doesn’t? I don’t always carry my laptop with me, so local files are kind of annoying.
Tables.