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The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

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Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#151

Post by gitaarik »

getcrunk wrote: post #35

A lot of the comments seem to call out Matt (right or wrong). But that’s the easy thing to do. No one dares address the systemic issue of for profit corporations exploitatively (ab)using open source software. There is a social contract that people should contribute back, and while it’s largely unenforceable, as it should be, when it’s happening on a systemic level something has to be done. And we are all complicit if…

I don't understand, many people built software on top of Linux, and Torvalds doesn't do crusades against organisations that build on top of it, make money from it and don't contribute anything back to Linux. How is this situation different?

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#152

Post by bigiain »

sangnoir wrote: post #38
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #10

Calling it right now: If WP Engine is reading, fork WordPress now. Call it FreshPress. Put $25M into it, team up with other hosts, abandon the editor everyone hates, and relicense it to GPLv3 so Matt can’t have any of it. (Note that WordPress’s license specifically says GPLv2 or later.) Maybe support Composer like sane modern PHP projects. Maybe put the most important plugins like Woo into core and make it an all-in-…

> Put $25M into it...then he’ll realize his bluff has been called I don't think Matt will be too displeased with WPEngine investing $25 million into a fork. He may even feel vindicated.

There's another thing WPEngine would do with that decision though, and that's ruin Matt/Automattic/wordpress.org in the court case (look at who WPE retained as councel, this is not going to be a quick/cheap litigation), and then crush them in the WP hosting market (which arguably they're already doing, which is why Matt's losing his mind).

Matt's extortion attempt is because WPEngine is generating a lot of revenue and is valuable enough for PE to notice. He figured he had a decent chance of blackmailing them out of 8% of their revenue to the tune of around 10mil a year. Matt's a deluded and entitled tech nerd cosplaying a mafia mobster. And WPEngine did not blink.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#153

Post by aragilar »

mthoms wrote: post #25

Fun fact. The new plugin uses "ACF" throughout the code, throughout the plugin reviews, and the url slug is literally "advanced-custom-fields". Guess who owns the trademark for both those things? WPEngine, that's who. https://imgur.com/a/D7YHn4e This guy is so bad at this that it's not even funny anymore.

Assuming that other plugins depend on ACF (which I get the impression is a thing?), automattic can probably argue that the use throughout the code is for compatibility reasons. There's also probably interactions with the GPL licenses (if it's GPL v2 or later).

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#154

Post by woleium »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #139
wise_young_man wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked Automattic is a privately held for profit company. One could argue that it’s a private equity too. Just using different words to twist a narrative.

This is not the same. Private equity extracts as an investment, Automattic is an ecosystem participant (that happens to be privately held) that actively contributes to the community. That doesn’t mean Matt hasn’t taken things too far (I leave that to be determined by civil courts and the Wordpress community, no dog in the fight myself), but there is a difference, and it is very important to clearly delineate who is r…

not trying to be controversial, and I know some private investment firms are understandably not well regarded, but there are plenty you don’t hear about that are quite pleasant to work with

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#155

Post by maxloh »

mardifoufs wrote: post #125
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #10

Calling it right now: If WP Engine is reading, fork WordPress now. Call it FreshPress. Put $25M into it, team up with other hosts, abandon the editor everyone hates, and relicense it to GPLv3 so Matt can’t have any of it. (Note that WordPress’s license specifically says GPLv2 or later.) Maybe support Composer like sane modern PHP projects. Maybe put the most important plugins like Woo into core and make it an all-in-…

The whole thing started because WP Engine does not want to put resources into WordPress development. It's not some sort of disagreement about design or development, it's about the work itself. If WP Engine has to create a fork and dump millions, they would basically lose. As they have built a business model around not contributing even to the already well developed WordPress codebase. So I can't imagine how going bey…

No. Matt want 8% revenue directly straight into Automattic's account.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#156

Post by woleium »

sgdfhijfgsdfgds wrote: post #76
coolgoose wrote: post #8

This is definitely going a bit too crazy. I sympathized with Wordpress a lot in the initial drama, but this is going downhill fast. Blocking somebody's access to the plugin repository, not accepting their patches, and then 'releasing' your own 'secure' version is just abuse, period.

Yeah. I'm a long-time WP site developer. I actually really like Gutenberg (which a lot of critics seem to be suggesting is the first thing that should go in a fork). I'm broadly supportive of e.g. bringing WP-GraphQL and its developer in-house, of adding ACF-type functionality to the core, and even of working to persuade WP Engine to be slightly better citizens. But I can't shake the feeling that to a lot of observer…

indeed, as a teenager we are all supposed to learn that just because we can does not mean we should.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#157

Post by maxloh »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #10

Calling it right now: If WP Engine is reading, fork WordPress now. Call it FreshPress. Put $25M into it, team up with other hosts, abandon the editor everyone hates, and relicense it to GPLv3 so Matt can’t have any of it. (Note that WordPress’s license specifically says GPLv2 or later.) Maybe support Composer like sane modern PHP projects. Maybe put the most important plugins like Woo into core and make it an all-in-…

A exception will be need for GPL licensed plugins/themes (and their forks).

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#158

Post by qingcharles »

shash7 wrote: post #104
consumer451 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ghost.org seems pretty cool.

Ghost is good for blogging and newsletters. But that's the problem. Wordpress is used for much much more. You can use it as a CMS, LMS, news platform, saas platform, and much more. You can literally customize it to the bone. Ghost is a good alternative to wordpress, only if you're using it for 2-3 specific usecases.

Right. Almost all Wordpress installs are now non-blogging.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#159

Post by qingcharles »

bigiain wrote: post #150
kyleee wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did anyone, especially here on HN, recommend going with Wordpress in the first place?

yeah. Me, for one. WordPress is kinda awful in a lot of ways. BUT You can hand a thoughtfully build WP site over to a non technical client, and they can work out or learn how to do 90% of the publishing and updating they need to do, or easily find staff or contractors with lots of WordPress experience to do it for them. The "43% of the entire web" statistic is a really really good reason to recommend WP for that reas…

Agree. I hate Wordpress, but I still recommend it and run a bunch of sites on it. It's very easy to get up and running. It's has two decades of support. A ton of plugins, and people will moan about Gutenberg, but it's actually a good thing, IMO.

I'm running dozens of WP sites on a single $3/mo Hetzner box without trouble.

Re: The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org

#160

Post by aimazon »

shprd wrote: post #144
chiefalchemist wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to speculate, especially from a distance. But I do wonder: - Why now? What snapped? Clearly WPE didn't go to "billions" over night. So why go nuclear now? - Doesn't he have a close and immediate circle of advisors and confidants? Are they speaking to him and he's not listen? Or has he locked himself in a room so to speak and is completely unapproachable? Either way, not good. - Is he trying to force WPE to for…

It's not new, Matt has been trying to reach an agreement for years.[1] To be fair, he has done everything he can for the health of the ecosystem for all these years. WP Engine leech off the WordPress brand from head to toe. Literally, from trademark to infrastructure, while Automattic covers the bill for the most part. Of course, legally, WPE doesn't have to contribute beyond its mouth but if we are going down that r…

You're citing Matt but Matt has been proven to be untrustworthy. For example, his claim of many year long negotiations includes a claim that he had delivered a term sheet to WP Engine in May, but that claim was disproven by himself, no such term sheet was delivered. Additionally, the contributions that he counts from WP Engine are only those included in the "Five for the Future" program which Matt administrates. The actual contributions of WP Engine to the ecosystem include millions of dollars per year on event sponsorship, plugin development (WPGraphQL, ACF) and more.

Read the lawsuit filed by WP Engine. No such negotiations existed. Matt has been arguing with WP Engine in his head. You may believe WP Engine's contributions to WordPress are disproportionately small for their size but make that argument on the basis of accurate information, not the fiction from Matt.

Nobody likes WP Engine but Matt's lying has been so problematic that it is impossible to take his side unless you believe that integrity is optional.

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