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Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

medscape.com

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Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#151

Post by DiscourseFan »

bugbuddy wrote: post #147
DiscourseFan wrote: post #82

Ok like most of you I’ve taken psychedelic drugs. I’ve had bad experiences sure, but I’m fine now. The issue is that what people generally say, like, “oh sometimes you need to encounter your demons,” maybe that will be temporarily traumatizing—in general people recover from that. The real issues are…more complex. More complex than any diagnoses in the DSM can cover. The brain is very complicated, and everyone’s brain…

> Ok like most of you I’ve taken psychedelic drugs. I would like to see some actual data because my assumption has always been that most people have never tried any. I personally have not had any. I have always subscribed to the slippery slope theory of vice.

Most people in this thread who are taking the position I’m critiquing, then

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#152

Post by DiscourseFan »

feoren wrote: post #144
phoronixrly wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience (this thread, too), the conversation gets polluted by people that swear by their self-medication and call more cautious people naysayers.

How come every time we try to have a conversion, it always ends up all "point counterpoint" and "personal experience with the topic" and "differing personal experience" and "discussion of how those experiences relate to the topic"!? EVERY TIME!

Its almost as if all experience is subjective…

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#153

Post by fullspectrumdev »

jdietrich wrote: post #51
fullspectrumdev wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The doses of psilocybin being used were so low as to be barely perceptible.

The participants received a 25mg dose; I can assure you that such a dose is very much perceptible. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5...

Ah, I made a calculation error by an entire order of magnitude while converting that to “grams of dried mushroom”.

Yeah that dose you would notice a fair bit - it’s equivalent to about 2.5g dried cubes.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#154

Post by dimal »

phoronixrly wrote: post #49
state_less wrote: post #31

> "Psychiatrists really focus on negative symptoms of depression. So, if you are not sad anymore, if your sleep or appetite is not impaired, they think you're better. But if you look at what patients define as important, they say it's the degree in which their life is meaningful, in which they can connect with people around them, in which they can function in everyday life," Barba said. A more wholistic approach to h…

> I often hear people talk about the risks of psychedelics, which are to be considered, but what’s the risk of doing nothing or withholding the best treatment? The risk is to make things worse. And I know that I am preaching to people that are of the opinion that they know better than the FDA, scientists and doctors and are all for self-medicating based off of the echo chamber here and a few cherry-picked, limited an…

And psychiatric drugs don’t ever make things worse? As someone who was severely injured by FDA approved, scientifically validated medications, I’d say some healthy distrust of a corporate-captured bureaucracy is warranted. Remember, OxyContin was FDA approved. Did the FDA ever launch an investigation into how they allowed that disaster to happen? No. They didn’t so much as say “whoops”.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#155

Post by phoronixrly »

feoren wrote: post #144
phoronixrly wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience (this thread, too), the conversation gets polluted by people that swear by their self-medication and call more cautious people naysayers.

How come every time we try to have a conversion, it always ends up all "point counterpoint" and "personal experience with the topic" and "differing personal experience" and "discussion of how those experiences relate to the topic"!? EVERY TIME!

The only valuable conversation about such research is an objective discussion of the quality of the study at hand.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#156

Post by DiscourseFan »

dimal wrote: post #145
DiscourseFan wrote: post #82

Ok like most of you I’ve taken psychedelic drugs. I’ve had bad experiences sure, but I’m fine now. The issue is that what people generally say, like, “oh sometimes you need to encounter your demons,” maybe that will be temporarily traumatizing—in general people recover from that. The real issues are…more complex. More complex than any diagnoses in the DSM can cover. The brain is very complicated, and everyone’s brain…

> we do not know, really, what goes on in there when you take a drug like Psilocybin FYI, same goes for SSRIs. The scientific consensus is that the serotonin deficiency theory of depression was wrong. When SSRIs actually work, we still don’t know why. I’ve had bad trips, too. Very bad, but I still think that psilocybin (in a controlled, supportive setting) is a better bet. My bad trips were all due to being in bad se…

I agree. But I don’t think psychedelics are the end all be all, that’s all

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#157

Post by tastyfreeze »

phoronixrly wrote: post #121
tastyfreeze wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people here are speaking from experience. I trust my own judgment over some knob in the FDA that is steeped in a culture of drug control.

> Many people here are speaking from experience. I trust my own judgment over some knob in the FDA that is steeped in a culture of drug control. Let me paraphrase this: Many people here are parroting stuff based on a sample size of 1, who lived to tell the tale. You trust your own judgement based on those people before the rigorous safety and effectiveness studies for the FDA, on a whim that the FDA approves or rejec…

The FDA exists to tell you, a free individual, what you are allowed to put in your body. It has been a very long time since the FDA has been about safety only. It is wholly captured by business interests in food and drug industries. So yes, they, and the government culture as a whole, hate recreational drugs that they don't control in some way. No shooms for you but drugs that cause suicidal ideation are prescribed by the millions.

I am wary of people "looking out for your safety" when there is financial incentive to do otherwise.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#158

Post by DiscourseFan »

farts_mckensy wrote: post #107
DiscourseFan wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was 500ug of LSD mixed with probably 6 or 7 drinks of alcohol. Suffered serotonin syndrome for a few days afterwards. Regardless I’ve heard stories of people having severe long term psychological issues from even relatively light doses, simply because of how their body in particular interacted with the drug.

It's such a bad idea to combine alcohol with psychedelics. You should lead off with exactly what you took so as not to mislead others.

As I said my experience incurred more risk of severe long term side effects, but those are possible in any circumstance with any psychedelic with even a single, low dose.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#159

Post by DiscourseFan »

jowdones wrote: post #123
DiscourseFan wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was 500ug of LSD mixed with probably 6 or 7 drinks of alcohol. Suffered serotonin syndrome for a few days afterwards. Regardless I’ve heard stories of people having severe long term psychological issues from even relatively light doses, simply because of how their body in particular interacted with the drug.

[flagged]

I was trying to see how far I could go

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#160

Post by LocalH »

striking wrote: post #77
HKH2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want people self-medicating with psilocybin, just like I don't want people self-medicating with SSRIs. Which is more dangerous?

Psylocybin? Easily? You have to put effort into making an experience with psylocybin meaningful and helpful. It could go wrong very easily, especially for those who are in a difficult situation or headspace. (Speaking from experience.) As for SSRIs? Safe, effective, with a handful of annoying side effects. Straightforward to use, low potential for misuse, requires sustained use for any intended effects. A doctor who…

I guarantee you the number of people who have died from SSRI misuse is higher than the number of people who have died from psilocybin misuse. I'm not referring to things a person may do in a given state, I'm talking about effects from the drugs themselves. I'm not aware of a single recorded person who has taken any dose of psilocybin, and died from "psilocybin overdose". While it may be uncommon, it is possible to overdose on SSRIs.
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