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Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

theguardian.com

151–160 of 576 posts

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#151

Speaking of the English language influencing German, I want my Erdbeermarmelade back. I don't care that english marmalde cannot be made of strawberries.

Why would you not be able to make it out of Strawberries? You can make Marmalade with any fruit. :)

Generally marmalade is made out of citrus fruits.

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#152

> The Deppenapostroph is not to be confused with the English greengrocer’s apostrophe, when an apostrophe before an ‘s’ is mistakenly used to form the plural of a noun (“a kilo of potato’s”). Grocer's apostrophes annoy me, along with words like "advices" (advice is an abstract noun and can't be plural, like "happiness") and "learnings" (use "lessons" instead).

I’ve never heard “advices” (in the US). Maybe it is a continental Europe thing? They may have surpassed even us, at the art of inventing new words and spellings to annoy the English.

I've heard my wife say it that way because it is a plural in her native language.

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#153
post #75

In America an idiot’s apostrophe is when someone uses it to pluralize words and it too seems to be growing in use.

I see this a lot in Brazil, and English is not even our language!

French people do make this mistake a lot too.

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#154
post #66

I knew of a building named Water's Edge, but spelled "Waters Edge". The absence of a possessive apostrophe was bothersome but I realised there's a case for sacrificing correctness for things like ease of communication and how the words look. An insight from Oscar Wilde: > Mr. Noel, in one of his essays, speaks with much severity of those who prefer sound to sense in poetry. No doubt, this is a very wicked thing to do…

But Waters Edge is totally fine if they mean "by the edge of the waters" and not "the edge belongs to the water". But hey, there are no rules or logic in English so have at it!

I think I understand:

I thought about trees:

Tree leaves (leaves from a tree)

Trees leaves (same but from more than one variety of tree)

Same logic for water:

Water edge (an edge that happens to be of a body of water)

Waters edge (same but of more than one body of water)

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#155

I lived in Germany on two occasions and regularly consume German media. English words are all over the German vernacular, to the point that it's really, really annoying.

It's pretty crazy how quickly it happened/happens. The Deppenapostroph is maybe less problematic; I see it more as a simplification just like the dative replacing the genitive. But Denglish really just makes everything harder to understand; even if you are fluent in both English and German the "switching" is tiresome. Still, maybe we should get rid of "handy" and "beamer" first...

Ironically, even British English has the issue of Americanisms sneaking in, see e.g. the IT Crowd episode: "How hard is it to remember 911?" "You mean 999? That's the American one".

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#156

Having French as mother tongue, I always find fascinating when the French and German official bodies go postal about such a topic. It’s like looking some parents complaining of the retro-influence of some common bastard children. :P Now, there are languages for which Globish can be part of an existential threat, but German and French are nowhere close to this. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_endangered_lan…

English being an amalgamated language and thus uniquely flexible is part of its power. We have options in style choices many languages formally don’t permit, e.g. when to italicise or, if quoting, whether to “exclude punctuation”, or “include it.” (As well as comma use.) As a fellow French speaker, I think these are strengths other languages could gain from. Couriel or email (or e-mail)? Speaker’s choice. Same for po…

Just this morning I came across a guy called Mr Techpedia on YouTube and I was really surprised because I heard a lot of English phrases but also phrases that are in a different language or a dialect of English I’m not familiar with. It was actually really cool. It also reminds me of a time when I heard someone codeswitch from US Midwestern English to Malaysian English - there was a clear difference in word choice and pronunciation. Global/Internet English as a concept is really cool as well. I often (accidentally) adopt grammatical constructions from Global English that I believe come from that particular speaker’s native tongue.

Anyway, yeah, I love this sort of mixing of languages and I’m glad a lot of cultures are more open about mixing in English.

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#157

I lived in Germany on two occasions and regularly consume German media. English words are all over the German vernacular, to the point that it's really, really annoying.

As someone living here for the last 20 years, and also nowadays understands a bit of dialects and related slag, it is kind of curious the amount of Denglish words among the youth.

For example, "Hast Du das geprüft?" quickly turns into "Hast du das gecheckt?".

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#158
post #79

I say the EU should adopt the Romanian language. It's spoken the same way as it is written. That should solve all spelling problems forever. :)))

No natural language is actually 100% phonetic. Romanian is no exception. Romanian spelling and pronunciation are close to phonetic, but the same is true of German.

A writing system being phonetic would be impractical, because most languages have tons of little phonetic alterations of individual sounds depending on position in the word/syllable, regional variation, etc.

What you usually want is that the writing system be phonemic, i.e. that there is a 1:1 correspondence between phonemes (meaningfully distinctive sound units) and characters. Unfortunately, languages evolve, so even if your writing systems starts out as more or less phonemic, over time the sounds of the language will drift and inertia will usually keep the writing system not fully in sync with these changes. This is particularly bad in the case of English, where there's never been a proper spelling reform accounting for the corresponding sound changes.

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#159

Having French as mother tongue, I always find fascinating when the French and German official bodies go postal about such a topic. It’s like looking some parents complaining of the retro-influence of some common bastard children. :P Now, there are languages for which Globish can be part of an existential threat, but German and French are nowhere close to this. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_endangered_lan…

I wouldn't mind for English to have "standardisation body" akin to French or German one (or RAE for Spanish) that could maybe get rid of backward, dumb spelling ;) (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_spelling_refo... )

The beauty of English is that it is controlled by the speakers and not by some pompous authority. It's even flexible enough to allow for regional differences, which allows my fellow Americans and I to spell words correctly like color and theater.

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you not be able to make it out of Strawberries? You can make Marmalade with any fruit. :)

Generally marmalade is made out of citrus fruits.

Of course but it doesn't have to be. There are tons of fruits that make great tasting marmalades. After watching the Mexican episode of British Bake Off I don't care about their opinions on food authenticity.
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