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YC S12 company refuses to pay for my design. "Send your claim to our legal team"

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Re: YC S12 company refuses to pay for my design. "Send your claim to our legal team"

#151
post #143

I wouldn't pay you for that design. It's mediocre and needs major refinement. I would tell you to redo it. Get over it and learn to hustle better, Otherwise you won't make it very long as a designer. Verbal agreements don't mean anything any more. Clients just don't care and designers are a dime a dozen these days. If we fail then our competitors pick up our mess. Again I will say, get over it and find some other wor…

I've flagged you as you've (so far) said this three times, and the abusive style is not welcome here.

Re: YC S12 company refuses to pay for my design. "Send your claim to our legal team"

#152
post #148
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with mobs is that they don't bother to first check that the complainant has a point. You've only heard one side of the story - why do you assume it's all you need to hear?

If the facts provided on the reddit post were untrue (such as the email replies), they would have been refuted by now.

Not true.

Say you run a business. Someone posts false allegations about you. Do you:

1. Answer them, and risk: a) inflating the story and keeping it in the press, b) being treated negatively by many bloggers/internet pundits who don't believe you because you're a company vs. an individual, c) risk saying something that will later hurt you in court?

Or:

2. Listen to the advice of your lawyers, who tell you that it's best to keep silent?

Re: YC S12 company refuses to pay for my design. "Send your claim to our legal team"

#153

Without saying anything about this particular situation, can I just point out for the four hundredth time that $780 invoices generate far, far, far more stupidity than $7,800 or $78,000 invoices do? This is the fault of both people who send $780 invoices and people who generate work likely to cause $780 invoices. Many of you will be able to pick whether you are either of these types of people. I suggest being neither…

Without saying anything about this particular situation, can I just point out for the four hundredth time that $780 invoices generate far, far, far more stupidity than $7,800 or $78,000 invoices do?

Your argument is a classic case of the correlation/causation fallacy.

A modest invoice does not "generate" stupidity. Millions of freelancers around the world make a good living doing relatively small jobs for satisfied customers and submitting modest invoices that get paid on time.

If you are in a position to work on higher-value deals, then naturally you will be dealing with other people of the same level. To get to that level typically requires a certain degree of professionalism, whichever side of the deal you're on. So sure, people working with higher-value contracts tend to have less hassle.

But being messed around by someone who won't pay your invoice doesn't mysteriously become your fault just because the invoice amount was under $1,000. That really is akin to saying that it's your fault you were robbed because you forgot to lock your home, or that she was asking for it because she was wearing a short skirt and had a couple of drinks.

Many of you will be able to pick whether you are either of these types of people. I suggest being neither.

I usually agree with your comments, but in this case, I'm afraid your advice is like saying "Make sure you run a successful business and deal only with great clients!" If it were that easy, everyone would be doing it. In reality, even those of us who are successful today were the new guy once, and I expect that almost all of us have made at least one deal we would have preferred to avoid, so that we could pay the rent or fund a side project.

Re: YC S12 company refuses to pay for my design. "Send your claim to our legal team"

#154
post #148
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with mobs is that they don't bother to first check that the complainant has a point. You've only heard one side of the story - why do you assume it's all you need to hear?

If the facts provided on the reddit post were untrue (such as the email replies), they would have been refuted by now.

Spoken with the conviction of a man who has no idea what he's talking about.

Re: YC S12 company refuses to pay for my design. "Send your claim to our legal team"

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of grey in the details that were left out. Unless you write it down and come to a crystal-clear agreement, this stuff happens.

Doesn't matter. The founder hired the designer verbally. I imagine that the judge will first determine if there was a verbal agreement, and then, if there is disagreement about the terms, use common sense and vague standards to determine the correct remuneration. It's not actually that complicated.

A judge? Over $1,500 or so? Possibly across state lines? Not gonna happen.

Re: YC S12 company refuses to pay for my design. "Send your claim to our legal team"

#156
post #14
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like eligibleapp.com

If it's them, maybe ask Katelyn Gleason if his version of the story is true: http://www.linkedin.com/in/katelyngleason

but the title says "YC S12"

and her linkedin says "Y Combinator: W2011"

.. but ye, the screenshots say eligible..

Re: YC S12 company refuses to pay for my design. "Send your claim to our legal team"

#157
post #152
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the facts provided on the reddit post were untrue (such as the email replies), they would have been refuted by now.

Not true. Say you run a business. Someone posts false allegations about you. Do you: 1. Answer them, and risk: a) inflating the story and keeping it in the press, b) being treated negatively by many bloggers/internet pundits who don't believe you because you're a company vs. an individual, c) risk saying something that will later hurt you in court? Or: 2. Listen to the advice of your lawyers, who tell you that it's b…

If somebody makes a statement of fact saying a certain person sent him an email and gives exact strings from that email, merely saying "That was not in the text of my email" will hardly be a legal problem.

I would have agreed with you if the statement was a subjective one such as "The CEO of the company was being racist or was biased because of my gender". Refuting such a thing is hard and you may inadvertently say something that hurts you later but this is not such a case.

Also, she hasn't quite been silent. She clarified the amount due on this thread (unless you want me to believe that was a part of some grand conspiracy). A similar clarification on the content of the emails could have been made if that guy made those lines up.

Re: YC S12 company refuses to pay for my design. "Send your claim to our legal team"

#158

Without saying anything about this particular situation, can I just point out for the four hundredth time that $780 invoices generate far, far, far more stupidity than $7,800 or $78,000 invoices do? This is the fault of both people who send $780 invoices and people who generate work likely to cause $780 invoices. Many of you will be able to pick whether you are either of these types of people. I suggest being neither…

While I see what you're getting at, I make a lot of my income from invoices between $400 and $2000. The smaller ones are usually the most profitable, by a lot.

I've also never had anything even remotely approaching this sort of problem. It's jus so easily avoided by insisting on the basics of communication.

So I think you've got it backwards. People willing and able to work for $78k invoices have probably figured this out at some point (either the easy way or the hard way). People on the low end may or may not have. That's not a reason to avoid the low end. It's a reason to figure this stuff out.

Re: YC S12 company refuses to pay for my design. "Send your claim to our legal team"

#159
post #139
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fuckoff@ is one interpretation. how_serious_are_you@ is another one.

Usually, startups are small. That means everybody knows everybody, and the CEO should know everyone. Why didn't she just forward the e-mail to their legal department/person internally, with a simple "thank you, your invoice will be reviewed"? Their response sounds like "Oh, you entered the wrong door, this is reserved for important persons. Go to the servant's door, just outside to the left".

Because they want to slow the process down to figure out what their response should be. Don't like that? Tough shit. Freelancers get Net-15 or Net-30 payment terms if they're lucky. Clients have weeks to honor invoices.

I am speaking here, by the way, as a representative of the "consultant" camp, not of the "client" camp.

Re: YC S12 company refuses to pay for my design. "Send your claim to our legal team"

#160

My advice? Get up, dust yourself off, and move on. These scenarios might result in a deluge of support from others in your field, but for a lot of managers, this puts you on a special kind of blacklist. We can't know all the details of the circumstance, but we do know for sure that you were willing to "name & shame" the client here on HN. For some, that's enough. Just to be clear, it definitely sounds like you got a…

Shut up and deal with it? I really wonder what this world would be like if everyone who had a career, family, or life to risk over being a whistleblower took the safe, sure path and shut up and dealt with it.

Yes, because whipping up an Internet mob over not having an invoice instantly paid is exactly the same as leaking the Pentagon Papers.

Sheesh.

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