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Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

mono-project.com

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Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#151

Post by commercialnix »

minkles wrote: post #52
commercialnix wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I write fullstack web applications in Rust, client-side too with a shim for interfacing with some JS for the DOM. So, I can agree with you in the abstract, but I'm gonna have to see you as part of the crowd that "hasn't figured it out yet".

Oh wow so you write fancy crud apps on the web? I've already got 300 people who can do that in C# (.net core) already. Why do I need any Rust people? What I need is people who can write very complex rule and constraint engines, mathematicians and statisticians to deliver some business value, not crud monkeys.

> I've already got 300 people [..]

Given the style of writing and argumentation you have prevented here, no one with leadership experience in the software industry is going to actually believe you. Maybe they're lateral to you.

And, even then, arguing quantity of engineers over quality of engineers is a pretty bad argument, especially on this site. So, yeah.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#152

Post by IshKebab »

philip1209 wrote: post #138

Can anybody speak to the accounting implications of "donating" software to a foundation/501(c)3? Can there be any kind of tax write-off? (It looks like this might already have been owned by a foundation, but I'm still generally curious)

At best you would be limited to the value lost which is essentially zero, so no.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#153

Post by justsomehnguy »

repelsteeltje wrote: post #62

I'm not a gamer so forgive me if I see connections that aren't there. Does this in any way impact game emulation? Isn't wine part of proton or stream attempts to run windows games on Linux? I suppose .net and clr play some time in win32, how is that usually emulated?

You are probably mix up .NET and C# somewhat.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#154

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

lolinder wrote: post #49
zbowling wrote: post #31

I worked on Mono a lot back in the early 2000s (back in the SVN days before it moved to Git, even). This move makes a lot of sense. Things evolved a lot over the years. Mono's legacy goals, which are to be a portable CLR (.NET) runtime for platforms that Microsoft didn't care about, don't make much sense today. Mono made a lot of sense for running places where full .NET didn't, like in full AOT environments like on t…

Is there somewhere where someone new to the ecosystem can get a simple introduction to all of these different terms and which ones are still relevant today? I looked into .NET somewhat recently and came away with the apparently mistaken impression that Mono was how .NET did cross-platform. I guess I must have been reading old docs, but I'm pretty sure they were at least semi-official. Is there good documentation some…

You’re not alone.

I would say I’m not ‘new’ and even developed .net 4.5 for a number of years. I’m just as stumped by the naming mess that Microsoft made across the board in that space.

Edit: I say 4.5 because I mean the original thick .net which is not dotnet core, which I think is the way to differentiate between versions, but also all the sub libraries like the orm were iirc named the same but did different things.

They should have rebadged everything with a new name that didn’t involve a word that is fairly painful to google (‘core’) can be used in development as well as the name of a framework.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#155

Post by sweeter »

moron4hire wrote: post #118
simion314 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, nobody wants to write Winforms new applications today My point is about running existing applications on Linux, there are still issues with running .Net GUI stuff under wine and Mono was not a perfect implementation. I read in other comments that the newer .Net cross platform stuff is not a replacement for Mono for running this old applications. (nobody will rewrite them to use the current GUI stuff from MS sin…

No, Microsoft's .NET only supports WinForms on Windows. They do have an official cross platform GUI toolkit in MAUI, but it strangely does not support Linux.

Windows: it's cross platform! Looks inside "Except for Linux"

Huh

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#156

Post by cultofmetatron »

pantalaimon wrote: post #149
Blot2882 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mono was, but newer versions of .NET run on Linux and Mac. You can install at the link below, and then making a project is just `dotnet new console` and run with `dotnet run` https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/install/linux

Is there a way to build a GUI app with .NET on Linux? Will it be cross-platform?

> Is there a way to build a GUI app with .NET on Linux?

yes

https://avaloniaui.net/

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#157

Post by nedt »

Mono was very useful in university. Must have been 2005 when I got asked if I wanted to use Java or C# for the programming course. Being bored with Java I picked C#. We were a very small group of two students.

But as I just had a Powerbook I used Mono to run it on OS X. At the end of the course someone from Microsoft came to the university to answer any of our question about upcoming features in .NET and C#. And as we were a small group I set directly in front of him with the shiny apple point at him.

Very interesting language at that time. .NET not so much. Also still remember that we were tasked to implement 3 sort algorithms of our choice. One of mine was bogosort and with Mono on PPC it could sort up to 7 elements, before becoming really slow.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#159

Post by fsckboy »

pantalaimon wrote: post #149
Blot2882 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mono was, but newer versions of .NET run on Linux and Mac. You can install at the link below, and then making a project is just `dotnet new console` and run with `dotnet run` https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/install/linux

Is there a way to build a GUI app with .NET on Linux? Will it be cross-platform?

(i hardly know what i'm talking about so somebody else may have a better idea, but i'm here now so)

mingw is a GNU's header/library environment (tools too maybe?) to create windows compatible applications. So I'd look into searching mingw .net and/or mingw mono.

also, ask your favorite AI, they're good at this type of question so long as it's not up to the minute news

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#160

Post by mdasen »

kragen wrote: post #126
zbowling wrote: post #31

I worked on Mono a lot back in the early 2000s (back in the SVN days before it moved to Git, even). This move makes a lot of sense. Things evolved a lot over the years. Mono's legacy goals, which are to be a portable CLR (.NET) runtime for platforms that Microsoft didn't care about, don't make much sense today. Mono made a lot of sense for running places where full .NET didn't, like in full AOT environments like on t…

i want to love dotnet-core, especially since godot switched from mono in godot 3 to dotnet-core in godot 4, but so far i haven't been able to currently debian has a mono package but no dotnet-core package. i'm not sure why this is; usually when debian lacks a popular nominally open-source package like this, it's either because it fails to build from source, or because it has some kind of tricky licensing pitfall that…

You can add add Microsoft's repo to install it on Debian: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/install/linux-....

Does Debian require packages to work on all of its architectures? If so, that could be the issue. .NET Core only supports x86, x64, and Arm64 (I think Arm32 has been discontinued and RISC-V is experimental at this point).

It's possible that they object to .NET Core having certain license restrictions on the Windows port (https://github.com/dotnet/core/blob/main/license-information...). .NET Core is mostly MIT or Apache licensed, but the Windows SDK has some additional terms. Skimming the third party licenses, that doesn't seem like an issue (mostly MIT/BSD/Apache or similar).

I think the licensing situation is an interesting question: if you have software that's 100% open source when compiled for your OS, but requires non-free stuff to run on Windows, is it ok to include in Debian? It looks like none of the non-free stuff (like WPF) gets distributed with the non-Windows SDK builds. Binaries created from your code only depend on MIT-licensed stuff on macOS and Linux, but might depend on something closed-source when targeting Windows - though it looks like almost all of that stuff is either WPF (so you wouldn't be able to develop on Linux/Mac anyway since those libraries wouldn't be in the SDK on those platforms) or were removed as a runtime dependency in .NET 7. It looks like `Microsoft.DiaSymReader.Native` might be the only thing left. Maybe that's what is holding it back?

> also, does dotnet-core have a reasonable aot story for things like esp32 and ch32v003?

"Reasonable" can be a lot of things to a lot of different people. People have been working on RISC-V support. Samsung seems interested in it. But I probably wouldn't recommend it at the moment - and Mono doesn't really have RISC-V support either.

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