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Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

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Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#151

Post by rglover »

nonameiguess wrote: post #148
rglover wrote: post #111

This is why Bitcoin is ideal. You can hold and transfer any amount, any time of day, without fear of surprises like this. Would I use it as a primary cash account for my business today? No, because of the obvious exchange rate/price swings. But long-term, moving toward Bitcoin as a settlement layer (i.e., a modern SWIFT) would solve a ton of problems and avoid situations like this. The more people that do that/normal…

This doesn't make any sense. The problems a business faces are: - Receive money from customers. If the customers don't have Bitcoin, they're not going to pay you in Bitcoin. - Pay your employees and suppliers. Very few of them will accept Bitcoin. - Borrow money to cover differences between revenue and expenses. The entity loaning you the money may or may loan you Bitcoin, but what difference does it make? They're go…

I didn't say keep all of your cash in Bitcoin.

In the current epoch, I'd cite Murphy's Law and say that anything is possible and it's wise for a CEO/CFO to plan ahead in case this happens. Bitcoin is one among several options and an excellent safeguard against corruption, political persecution, etc.

As for exchange hacks and lost keys, the business that relies on this will intelligently keep funds off-exchange/self-custody and use multisig wallets with signatures held by multiple officers of the company.

Today, it's the "nuclear option." But if enough people start transacting in Bitcoin routinely, it's the ideal future.

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#152

Post by choilive »

benzible wrote: post #9

About 10 years ago a startup I co-founded had about $3M in a Chase account. We received a notification that they were closing our account within 30 days. We weren't able to get any information but I assume this was a KYC false positive. The only thing I can think of is that we had some investors from the Middle East. We had no problem withdrawing our funds but since then, I've opened another business account and a pe…

Had a similar experience at a startup I co-founded. Chase's risk or compliance team suddenly decided to close our accounts. Possibly because we were in the crypto space.

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#153

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

CliffStoll wrote: post #26

Similar experience: Citibank Retirement. I had about $80,000 in IRA/CD's. I'd created & contributed to them over a period of 35 years. Last year, it's time to retire, and Citibank won't give me half the money. It seems that some CD's are for "Cliff Stoll" and some for "Clifford Stoll". Citibank Retirement demanded a "Marriage Certificate, Divorce Decree, or Court Order" to demonstrate that "Cliff Stoll" is the same p…

Did you show them your TV interview?

:)

Glad you got things straightened out.

Yesterday's SMBC made me think of you: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/outside

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#154

Post by burnte »

CliffStoll wrote: post #26

Similar experience: Citibank Retirement. I had about $80,000 in IRA/CD's. I'd created & contributed to them over a period of 35 years. Last year, it's time to retire, and Citibank won't give me half the money. It seems that some CD's are for "Cliff Stoll" and some for "Clifford Stoll". Citibank Retirement demanded a "Marriage Certificate, Divorce Decree, or Court Order" to demonstrate that "Cliff Stoll" is the same p…

Early this year they messed around with a credit card account I had with them. I immediately said fix it or I cancel today, they refused, I cancelled the account and they've been nagging me to come back for 6 months. Fuck no!

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#155

Post by unyttigfjelltol »

kevdoran wrote: post #69

> Mercury is a fintech company, not an FDIC-insured bank Funny enough, I recently opened a Chase business checking because of this "bank not bank" news: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40480159 I still have a different business checking with a Mercury-like fintech provider. Chase freezes accounts, Fintech startups go under. Chase already froze my business credit card once. I had to send them a deed of a house th…

There is a middle ground called "community banking".

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#156

Post by Balgair »

CliffStoll wrote: post #26

Similar experience: Citibank Retirement. I had about $80,000 in IRA/CD's. I'd created & contributed to them over a period of 35 years. Last year, it's time to retire, and Citibank won't give me half the money. It seems that some CD's are for "Cliff Stoll" and some for "Clifford Stoll". Citibank Retirement demanded a "Marriage Certificate, Divorce Decree, or Court Order" to demonstrate that "Cliff Stoll" is the same p…

Aside: Hey Cliff, love your work and efforts, glad to hear you're retiring too.

Yeah, we had another issue with Chase like yours and the article's. Finally got around to letting Chase know that a family member had died, took a little while, because, duh. We were all on the accounts together. So, Chase then goes and makes us all down as dead. Freezes everything, then started up the process to put up the money for probate to our various estates (?!). Luckily, we get daily emails about this and were able to go and start everything back up again. It's still no where near finished up, after about 5 months of weekly visits. They managed to make us undead in their system, but then a week later it would revert. No one ever knew what was going on and still don't. Eventually managed to get a check of all the cash in the checking and savings accounts and have gone and put it all with a local credit union. However, about $120k of retirement savings from my dead family member are still locked up in Chase. No amount of records from the county or newspaper obits or hospice forms can convince Chase that the deceased is actually dead. They, and I am not joking here, said that my family member has to sign off on declaring their death to Chase.

Chase, never again.

I want to be clear to the other readers here: This is your warning that 'something is rotten in Denmark'. When another large fiscal crisis starts up again in ~3 years, you'll now know it's because these banks have become too big to operate, not just fail. Cleaning out that mess is going to be a lot harder than 2008, as all their internal records stink.

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#158

Post by eduction »

I feel bad for you and not a fan of Chase’s behavior here but I would never open a business banking account in a country different from the one I’m living in unless I had an extremely good reason (like a statutory requirement). Particularly if I hadn’t fully secured permission to be in that country.

Even then, if I was going to do it I would want to be sitting physically across from a bank officer to make it happen, not online. I opened business checking from BofA online years ago and it was a total nightmare even living a short walk from the branch, being a US citizen, etc. They did freeze it once or twice. Never again.

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#159

Post by luizfzs »

CliffStoll wrote: post #26

Similar experience: Citibank Retirement. I had about $80,000 in IRA/CD's. I'd created & contributed to them over a period of 35 years. Last year, it's time to retire, and Citibank won't give me half the money. It seems that some CD's are for "Cliff Stoll" and some for "Clifford Stoll". Citibank Retirement demanded a "Marriage Certificate, Divorce Decree, or Court Order" to demonstrate that "Cliff Stoll" is the same p…

Sorry to hijack. Cliff Stoll the astronomer?

I loved your book! I loved the way it reads. So fluid and interesting.

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#160

Post by 77pt77 »

Always have your money split between multiple unrelated banks in different jusrisdictions.

Always have multiple debit and credit cards between different institutions.

If possible avoid the USA banking system, although thats easier said than done if you live there.

These are good practices for both professional, company and personal finances.

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