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Aristotle – How to live a good life

ralphammer.com

151–160 of 183 posts

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#151

One thing you have to notice is the centrality of the nature of a thing, which is to say its telos , or end. Fulfillment is, after all, defined by our nature; it is a matter of proceeding from potential to actuality, as determined by our nature. What is good advances a person according to one's nature (in our case, human nature), what is bad acts against it. Telos, or finality, also gives morality its proper and obje…

I am not compelled by this. To the best of my ability to understand the world in which I find myself, it seems unfortunately to be the case that there are no human beings as such, no persons, no moral agents. What I see around me are assemblages of interacting quantum fields which share no fundamental nature with one another except that they happen to be arranged in similar (but not remotely identical or fundamentally related) shapes. Given that there are no human beings there cannot be a single human nature and thus I can say nothing about whether a person's behavior is good or bad in reference to such.

I admit this is a daunting state of affairs which is not pleasant to contemplate, but I don't adopt beliefs on the basis of what is pleasant or unpleasant or easy or not easy. I adopt them, as far as I have the agency to do so, on the basis of what seems plausible and, given how I understand the universe, your account seems highly implausible.

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#152
post #138
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says directly: “One might even suffer greatly and still live a virtuous—that is: a good—life. When Aristotle speaks of a “happy” life, he means a fulfilled or flourishing life rather than a pleasurable one.” Suffering certainly does make it harder to be virtuous, but you can interpret that not as disregarding the poor but as giving even more justification for orienting society toward satisfying everyone’s…

Idea: Web page of every phrase in (Koine) greek that meant different thing to the ancient great philosophers than in English language today. This'd help to get a good picture of the Greeks at once for one usually stumbles upon the "different interpretations" slowly.

There are these books:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Greek-Philosophical-Terms-Historica...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Greek-Philosophical-Vocabulary-J-Ur...

I have the second one, which I found useful when studying ancient Greek philosophy in English translation.

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#153
post #35

It's good to try to boil Aristotle down to some topological order, because it is latent there. But to get the order right, this presentation needs some background in the Greek terms Aristotle is using. E.g., focus on the first few lines of the Nichomachean Ethics, about all beings having a good for themselves; that pulls in his metaphysics, some logic, and orients you to the argument structure. (Personally, I'm not f…

I agree. Though the images are engaging to look at they don’t immediately help my understanding.

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#154
post #81
post #53

[flagged]

Thank modern philosophy, which unfortunately discarded all previous philosophical knowledge

I think knowledge isn’t something that accumulates—each generation discards some old things and discovers some new.

The old stuff is still there of course, but it’s not a part of the societal discourse or understanding and so is more inert information than knowledge.

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#155
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But what does it mean to cut well? Just the sharpness of the blade? What about grip comfort? And balancing? And stickiness? And weight? And what about the thing being cut? Can a knife cut everything well? But what does it mean to cut? What is sharpness? How does one define it? What is a blade? What does it mean for something to be "comfortable"? How does one define weight: how does one define if something is "heavy…

That is also a bit of what philosophy is and in the exercise of fractally dissecting everything sometimes we uncover some new way of looking at things or deepen our understanding a bit more.

> […] and in the exercise of fractally dissecting everything […]

Except you don't do every time and on every topic. The topic now is happiness: it is not necessary to talk about what "is" means here.

If you want to talk about ontology[0] submit an article on it.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#156
post #91
post #53

[flagged]

I prefer these over the 1000th blog post about how SQLite is awesome (it is)

There are so many good (non-mainstream) tech articles to share. A lot of them are not repetitive. A lot are shared here every day. Yet, for some reason, people decide to share these self-help low effort articles on HN. Just make some "news.selfhelp.how2behappy.com" website.

(No offense to you, I just don't get it)

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#157

One thing you have to notice is the centrality of the nature of a thing, which is to say its telos , or end. Fulfillment is, after all, defined by our nature; it is a matter of proceeding from potential to actuality, as determined by our nature. What is good advances a person according to one's nature (in our case, human nature), what is bad acts against it. Telos, or finality, also gives morality its proper and obje…

I am not compelled by this. To the best of my ability to understand the world in which I find myself, it seems unfortunately to be the case that there are no human beings as such, no persons, no moral agents. What I see around me are assemblages of interacting quantum fields which share no fundamental nature with one another except that they happen to be arranged in similar (but not remotely identical or fundamentall…

And yet, you also have the experience of existing and the experience of thinking and the experience of making decisions. I think this is evidence that your analysis is missing something. (And before you just dismiss this as wrong, note that an incorrect model generally fails at the edges, so these quiet discrepancies are important hints.) If you focus on the components, how can you see the higher-order whole? If you can only see cells, it is hard to perceive the body. If you can only see the assembly code it is hard to grok the algorithm, let alone the purpose for which the algorithm is used.

On the other hand, if you insist that there are no human beings, you should adopt the values/morals of Buddhism, since your arguments of non-existence are very similar to Buddhist arguments.

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#158

One thing you have to notice is the centrality of the nature of a thing, which is to say its telos , or end. Fulfillment is, after all, defined by our nature; it is a matter of proceeding from potential to actuality, as determined by our nature. What is good advances a person according to one's nature (in our case, human nature), what is bad acts against it. Telos, or finality, also gives morality its proper and obje…

One of my core criticisms to Plato and later Aristotle is not a criticism of Aristotle qua Aristotle, but in the way people give this almost religious reverence to the particular words they use. As if by saying that >Telos, or finality, also gives morality its proper and objective ground: what is morally right or wrong follows, ultimately, from one's nature. I have some intuitive understanding of what telos is and wh…

Not the parent, but as I understand it the post is saying that morality is not defined by outcome, but rather by consistency of the object's purpose. A sentient chair choosing to fall apart when you sit on it is being "immoral", opposed to its purpose.

> I'd argue that Scholasticism, that is, the marriage of Middle-Ages Christianity to the truthy-sounding gobbledygook of Aristotle, set the case for the moral authority of the church back a thousand years.

a) maybe the Roman church; I don't think the Eastern Orthodox embraced that. And the Protestants more or less junked it, too.

b) "truthy-sounding" is awful dismissive for something that took Europe by storm when Aristotle was re-discovered. Modern thought has rejected Plato and Aristotle, and especially Post-modern thought, but does Aristotle sound "truthy" because you've bought into modern/post-modernity or because he's poor quality? We might have reject Plato/Aristotle because us moderns are so much more enlightened than the ancients. Or we could have a serious case of hubris. Given that large segments of the West are espousing that gender and even species--previously seen as immutable--are mutable, we're either seriously wrong and headed for disaster, or we've discovered something seriously novel.

c) I'm not an expert on Scholasticsm, but as far as telos goes, the Christian telos for humanity is to become like God--to love each other sacrificially as Christ loved us, and to participate with God in creating/stewarding the material world. It's the most expansive telos I'm aware of, and I don't think I've even properly grasped or expressed it.

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#159
post #118

> Aristotle says that humans have a capacity to be good, but it is up to us to develop our character. This is best achieved through study and habit. Cool. So, then I just draw the rest of the owl? I have no idea where to begin to develop my character.

Well,

> This is best achieved through study and habit.

Probably the most efficient way is to study "good" authors, and to emulate "good" models of virtue. The second section of OP already gives some practical tips:

> A good character can handle emotions properly.

> We do that by finding the right mean between two extremes:

> Courage is the right mean between cowardice and recklessness.

> Temperance is the right mean between gluttony and abstinence.

Different "good" models of virtue will often independently reach similar conclusions: handling of emotions is notoriously valued in Buddhism; avoiding extremes is close to Confucius's doctrine of the mean[0], of which Jesus's "turning the other cheek" could be one practical implementation.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine_of_the_Mean

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not compelled by this. To the best of my ability to understand the world in which I find myself, it seems unfortunately to be the case that there are no human beings as such, no persons, no moral agents. What I see around me are assemblages of interacting quantum fields which share no fundamental nature with one another except that they happen to be arranged in similar (but not remotely identical or fundamentall…

And yet, you also have the experience of existing and the experience of thinking and the experience of making decisions. I think this is evidence that your analysis is missing something. (And before you just dismiss this as wrong, note that an incorrect model generally fails at the edges, so these quiet discrepancies are important hints.) If you focus on the components, how can you see the higher-order whole? If you…

I don't really see any reason to adopt values or morals of any kind.
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