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NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

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Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#151

Post by nradov »

wmf wrote: post #148
nordsieck wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The purpose of a system is what it does. Defense contractors extract money from the government, they are not here to enable space travel, they are here to move money from other people's pockets to their own. Any other actions are purely ancillary. And if they can get the money without delivering any result at all, why, they're fine with that. This is part of the reason why the new era of firm, fixed price contracts…

Old Space companies will never adopt fixed price. NASA just needs to drop them.

That sounds good, until it leaves NASA entirely dependent on SpaceX as a single supplier. For better or worse, there don't seem to be any other companies (old or new) that are able to successfully execute on huge fixed-price contracts.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#152

Post by wonderwonder »

School-Cotton wrote: post #23

Does anyone actually seriously believe the U.S. will land a person on the moon in 2025? This is the country that takes decades to open a new subway station.

I honestly hope so or soon after although I think it unlikely. The psychological shock to the nation & to the world of seeing China do it before us will be immense. It will have indicated a changing of the guard and the decline of America.

But I like to think we will.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#154

Post by wmf »

nradov wrote: post #151
wmf wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old Space companies will never adopt fixed price. NASA just needs to drop them.

That sounds good, until it leaves NASA entirely dependent on SpaceX as a single supplier. For better or worse, there don't seem to be any other companies (old or new) that are able to successfully execute on huge fixed-price contracts.

Sierra and Blue Origin are coming.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#155

Post by toomuchtodo »

wmf wrote: post #145
sgnelson wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the OIG report, it states: "Michoud officials stated that it has been difficult to attract and retain a contractor workforce with aerospace manufacturing experience in part due to Michoud’s geographical location in New Orleans, Louisiana, and lower employee compensation relative to other aerospace competitors."

The entire purpose of SLS is to create high-paying jobs and they just... didn't. Imagine having a blank check and cheaping out. Amazing.

If you can get away with the share buybacks and other self enrichment, with no accountability mechanisms, this is a natural outcome based on who is in charge of these companies. But, if we were to have made these workers government employees to pay them the desired wages (and cut out the management and shareholder middlemen) as well as “pay, train, retrain”, we would have been laughed at as promoting government waste. Much harder to skim government wages as a for profit enterprise vs government contracts.

Like a religion or a cult, you have to cut through the ideology; the ideas are parroted to control the narrative.

https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/the-rot-at-the-heart-of...

https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-disaster-american-bus...

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#156

Post by Spooky23 »

akira2501 wrote: post #30
dotnet00 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Congress critters use it as a means to spend taxpayer money on purchasing votes. They'll do pretty much anything to avoid having to admit that SLS was a mistake.

Is "Moon Policy" anywhere near the ballot box? Particularly for senators? To the extent it might be, isn't it the inverse problem, to cancel the program is to lose jobs. So they're mostly just being held hostage by the monopoly. The person you are voting for has fantastically small power. Which, is not what we were taught, but it does seem to be the fact.

Projects like this have the work divvied up amongst as many congressional districts as possible. It’s about graft, not policy.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#157

Post by napierzaza »

mananaysiempre wrote: post #10

> During a visit to Michoud in 2023, for example, inspectors discovered that welding on a component of the SLS Core Stage 3 did not meet NASA standards. Per the report, unsatisfactory welding performed on a set of fuel tanks led directly to a seven-month delay in EUS completion. > “According to NASA officials, the welding issues arose due to Boeing’s inexperienced technicians and inadequate work order planning and su…

[dead]

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#158

Post by juanani »

29athrowaway wrote: post #73

When Yuri Gagarin saw Earth from orbit for the first time in history, he saw a planet without borders between nations. One planet, one human species. This vision is the last thing that the people profiting from conflict want you to see.

[dead]

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#159

Post by wonderwonder »

mcmcmc wrote: post #28
fourseventy wrote: post #9

Just give the whole contract to SpaceX already

Sure, let’s give the richest man on earth who spends more time trolling on Twitter than working more taxpayer dollars for his self enrichment

So in a thread about how abysmal and over budget the only competitor is, you have decided that we should cut off the most innovative space company in of the past 20 years and our governments sole proven launch provider because you don't like the owner on a personal level?

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#160

Post by nordsieck »

nradov wrote: post #151
wmf wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old Space companies will never adopt fixed price. NASA just needs to drop them.

That sounds good, until it leaves NASA entirely dependent on SpaceX as a single supplier. For better or worse, there don't seem to be any other companies (old or new) that are able to successfully execute on huge fixed-price contracts.

> For better or worse, there don't seem to be any other companies (old or new) that are able to successfully execute on huge fixed-price contracts.

Northrup Grumman seems to be doing a pretty good job with Cygnus. And ULA seems to be doing alright with NSSLv2 (although it sounds like they may have had to give up a launch or two due to Vulcan delays).

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