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The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

chuck.is

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Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#151

Post by gosub100 »

afpx wrote: post #39
steveBK123 wrote: post #19

The blending of comedy/entertainment with news, going back to the GWB era with the Daily Show is a good example of this problem. People consuming junk food thinking they are getting their vegetables. Better to simply turn off your brain and honestly watch real junk without the false sophistication.

What's your opinion of John Oliver? I just watched a YouTube video of his show https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqK3_n6pdDY . It seemed pretty good, but I'm also very ignorant. What's the best way to become informed about a topic? Or, is it better to stay ignorant?

He is funny, but only while promoting one side. He will never tell a joke that embarrasses one of his own, he will never point out the idiocy of his own party, just the other.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#152

Post by j7ake »

benwerd wrote: post #150

This is a pretty bad take. For example, multiple studies have shown that in communities that aren't addressed by a robust local news outlet, local corruption goes up. Having a good newsroom _does_ improve an understanding of what your representatives are up to, and a lack of information _does_ allow them to get up to more behind our backs. I think the biggest failure of this piece is to make all news equivalent. Yes,…

The key is to focus on local news: these are updates that a person can take action upon.

Seeing the latest tragedies on the other side of the world catches headlines, but rarely actionable by regular people.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#153

Post by kranke155 »

marcosdumay wrote: post #142
kranke155 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they weren’t a sizeable majority, I don’t think we’d be having the same kind of leaders we’re getting in the west tbh.

I large part of it is that the leader selection is highly oligopolized, and you are partially in denial about how undesirable the other candidates are. (Probably because you see the need to pick them, as they are the rational choice, but you can't feel aligned with their actual values, because they are horrible.)

It's all connected. The oligopoly of leader selection is highly influenced by the owners of media, which usually are aiming to influence national policy to their preference.

The destruction of the newspaper and the "liberty of information" of the internet is now compressed through information warfare, or as Steve Bannon puts it "flooding the zone with shit".

You flood the main channels (social media now) with disinformation and misinformation, or even information calculated to create as much anger as possible (Cambridge Analytica knew that making people angry was the easiest way to make them change their minds). You use bot networks and sockpuppets to spread it.

Through that you get the same overall effects as when newspapers were a thing - even with "unlimited" channels, they're all showing what you want them to show. You flooded the zone with what you want people to see, and you made it so that it follows the response that the algorithm will propagate it even more (sharing, liking).

Overall the effect is the same. And for the same reason. Those controlling the information want to control leadership, leadership choices, and leadership selection. That's the target.

This isn't a conspiracy theory. This is why Bob Mercer bought Cambridge Analytica (an information warfare firm that was doing counter terrorism work for NATO) and put Steve Bannon in charge. Influencing elections.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#154

Post by morning-coffee »

boxed wrote: post #136
cdrini wrote: post #47

The more I think about the state of news, the more I'm convinced that we need independent rankings of news sites and journalism. Something similar to a health inspection score. With considerations like: - News needs to be verifiable. Direct links to data sources. - News need to have history of modifications to their article. - Factual errors will cause dings to their score. - Revenue sources/tax forms need to be publ…

You can't have news be a business. Period. It's really that simple. It's like having schools be a business, or healthcare, roads, regulation agencies, etc. You can't produce a system where the EPA gets its funding from the amount of pollution it stops for example. That's a perverse incentive. These types of organizations are by definition cost centers. And must be treated as such.

If the news is a cost center, who pays for it? I'm assuming your implied solution is to roll-up news production/curation to be under the federal government? (Assuming U.S. here, since you mentioned EPA.) Aren't the strings of government ultimately pulled by forces leading back to businesses? Isn't lobbying more influential than individual tax payers in how their taxes are spent? Do you really think the end result would be materially better (in the U.S.) if news were only provided by the government?

New has always been a business. The 1st amendment to the U.S. Constitution was put in place precisely to prevent government from controlling the press.

I think, like the junk food analogy implies, it's up to the end consumer to decide what to purchase. Yes, there are psychological and neurological factors at play... sugar is addicting, and there is a dopamine hit in anticipating what's behind the click-bait... but if enough individuals realize there are better things to eat and better information to consume, these business peddling junk would go out of business.

Or, another possible solution, while I'm spitballing... ban paid advertising in some ways. Let local community advertising by local business through, by all means, but ban ads to consumers by conglomerates who operate outside of some radius?

(Corrected typo.)

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#155

Post by cheeseomlit »

xpe wrote: post #144
cheeseomlit wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My objection isn't that its good but not perfect, I don't think itd be good at all. So far everyone who's tried to be a neutral arbiter of truth has been a political hack, like politifact and groups like that. Training the public to trust things just because they got a good score from some agency is not going to improve their ability to think critically and be informed, the false sense of legitimacy (and the ability…

If a rater has a clear set of evaluation criteria and a moderation log, does that do enough to change your view on the value add?

Maybe- there are just so many variables, and the trust has been so eroded already. It'd have to be super strict for me to be on board, to the point where it's less journalism and more technical writing. "Just the facts ma'am" to the extreme, every sentence is a statement of verifiable fact- no conjecture or interpretation, all that is left to the reader. You won't get many clicks that way, though.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#156

Post by mistermann »

loudmax wrote: post #135
jtwoodhouse wrote: post #40

I started my career as a reporter a decade ago. I can't tell you how many stories I filed that an editor twisted into something different to fit their narrative. There were also stories I was directed away from because they would alienate our audience. It's a narrative business.

People really need to understand how journalism works as a business model. When you only consume news that reinforces your beliefs, that creates an incentive to produce news that conforms to your beliefs. This doesn't mean your beliefs are wrong, just that you should be aware of your own biases and guard against them. Excessive cynicism is a real danger too. Democracies rely on an informed electorate to guide decisio…

What if our aversion to pursuing absolute truth, insisting on stopping at true enough (like democracy being our most sacred institution) is the problem though?

I would like us to strive for better, not keep it the way it is now.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#157

Post by benwerd »

j7ake wrote: post #152
benwerd wrote: post #150

This is a pretty bad take. For example, multiple studies have shown that in communities that aren't addressed by a robust local news outlet, local corruption goes up. Having a good newsroom _does_ improve an understanding of what your representatives are up to, and a lack of information _does_ allow them to get up to more behind our backs. I think the biggest failure of this piece is to make all news equivalent. Yes,…

The key is to focus on local news: these are updates that a person can take action upon. Seeing the latest tragedies on the other side of the world catches headlines, but rarely actionable by regular people.

We all have foreign policies. For example, in the US, our government is heavily involved in Gaza and Ukraine. It's far away, but it's also highly relevant to how our representatives work on our behalf.

Should we give aid to other countries? How should we think about global society? Those things are all relevant, too.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#158

Post by avodonosov »

benwerd wrote: post #150

This is a pretty bad take. For example, multiple studies have shown that in communities that aren't addressed by a robust local news outlet, local corruption goes up. Having a good newsroom _does_ improve an understanding of what your representatives are up to, and a lack of information _does_ allow them to get up to more behind our backs. I think the biggest failure of this piece is to make all news equivalent. Yes,…

What news sites could you recommend? If not perfect, then at least of decent quality?

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#159

Post by mistermann »

kranke155 wrote: post #130
cdrini wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't say for certain but I'm not so sure the people you're describing are a sizeable majority. I think most people are just watching news and doing their best. If a news site has a "C" rating on it -- which would require some sort of government regulation to enforce which would be a whole other thing -- which is then clickable and let's you see "exactly" what it has that rating ( eg "17 inaccuracies in last month…

If they weren’t a sizeable majority, I don’t think we’d be having the same kind of leaders we’re getting in the west tbh.

Our "good" leaders are only good because they are "measured" (perceived) on an absolute scale. This is due to our heavily ingrained cultural norms and beliefs.

Re: The News Is Information Junk Food (2022)

#160

Post by xtiansimon »

Poor Chuck. I read this and think he needs more _older adults_ in his life. Kidding/not kidding. Chuck’s argument lumps social media with “the news”

>“The news (and social media use) is indicative of a poor information diet.”

When I was young my grandfather would listen to KCBS news radio in the morning and KTVU 10 o’clock news in the evening. That’s it. My dad read the local Argus newspaper. That’s it.

As a youth I didn’t, but the impression was made.

Now I listen to WNYC (NPR) radio in the morning when I get up. That’s it.

News doesn’t have to be what they offer—24/7/365–but a habit of keeping yourself informed about local, regional, national and world events. I prefer one dose in the morning (“should I go back to bed?”)

My opinion in reaction to an opinion piece.

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