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If AI chatbots are the future, I hate it

jeffgeerling.com

151–160 of 200 posts

Re: If AI chatbots are the future, I hate it

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your opinion stems from never having dealt with normal people interfacing with a technical product . They're not asking the same questions you or I might, they're asking documented questions and they're doing it in obscene volume, with such little ability to help themselves. ISPs probably take the cup for worst ratio of technical issues to technical idiots. It's not just a modem, there's a line, an internal n…

If the first contact I can have with support is an LLM, that's the same as not providing support. Even talking to non-technical staff following scripts first, as obnoxious as that is, is preferable. The only reason that I'm calling support in the first place is because web searching and their automated systems have failed me. I may not be the standard customer, but that's not my problem. If that matters, all that's s…

No it actually can be done competently, believe it or not. The best example of this I've seen is Swisscom. Swisscom has a customer support bot, they call it "Sam". Sam is amazing and a lesson to all other companies in how to automate customer support.

1. Sam tells you it's a bot. They don't hide what they're doing.

2. Sam is optional. You can choose to call human support at any time.

3. If you agree to always try chatting to Sam first they cut you in on the savings, and reduce your monthly bill. The reduction is big enough to be definitely worth it, it's not 10 cents a month or anything like that.

4. Sam escalates quickly and voluntarily if it can't work out how to answer your question. It doesn't try and block you from talking with a person.

5. Sam is astonishingly good at actually answering questions. I don't know what tech they're using for this; it seems like some sort of really souped up LLM with great RAG, maybe. Whatever it is, it works. Several times I've contacted Swisscom support and gone through Sam, and it did in fact solve my problem.

6. All the above is true even though I'm interacting with Sam in English, which is not a Swiss national language.

Truly, this is what a good bot-supported contact experience should be like. Of course in most cases institutions don't do such a good job, and just become frustrating. Bots that pretend to be human, bots that don't seem to know the answers to anything, bots that make it as hard as possible to escalate and of course in the end ... nothing in it for the customer to put up with that. But if Swisscom can do it then other companies can too, there's nothing magical about this use case.

My assumption is that after a while we're going to find that most people actually prefer bot driven support experiences, same as how they came to prefer self checkout at supermarkets, ATMs at banks etc.

Re: If AI chatbots are the future, I hate it

#152

I hate AI chatbots too and I have yet to encounter one that is remotely helpful, let alone an enjoyable experience. On the other hand I can very well image how such a positive exchange could look like. I am not convinced that it is not possible to create a chatbot that provides a satisfactory or even satisfying interaction, but I believe the incentives to do so are not there. Most of the time chatbots are just an add…

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Re: If AI chatbots are the future, I hate it

#153
post #3

I hate bad chatbots but when done right its a nice middleground between support and waiting in a huge queue. What many here on HN don't realize is some significant portion of call center activity is people asking things like "Whats my balance?".

> What many here on HN don't realize

I've seen this sentiment a few times in the comments here, but I really doubt that a significant number of readers here don't realize that.

Re: If AI chatbots are the future, I hate it

#154
post #12

The general trend of insulating the human customer away from human customer service is just a horrible thing that keeps spreading. It was bad enough outsourcing customer support to overseas agents who have their hands tied to only read from a script and generally do nothing, and now we're just talking to computers that can generally do nothing. The message is the same: we don't actually care about our customers. I ow…

I think your opinion stems from never having dealt with normal people interfacing with a technical product . They're not asking the same questions you or I might, they're asking documented questions and they're doing it in obscene volume, with such little ability to help themselves. ISPs probably take the cup for worst ratio of technical issues to technical idiots. It's not just a modem, there's a line, an internal n…

> Your desire to handle that all in-house by organic, corn-fed, English-as-their-first-language meat-bags is lovely but you'd be bankrupt in a week.

Or, the ISP/shareholders would have to accept slightly lower profits. I know, I know, this is totally unspeakable here, but might as well at least list the option for completeness.

Re: If AI chatbots are the future, I hate it

#155
post #12

The general trend of insulating the human customer away from human customer service is just a horrible thing that keeps spreading. It was bad enough outsourcing customer support to overseas agents who have their hands tied to only read from a script and generally do nothing, and now we're just talking to computers that can generally do nothing. The message is the same: we don't actually care about our customers. I ow…

I admire your viewpoint but I also find that it's extremely seldom that I need customer support for the majority of services I use. If I need it it's usually because of a flaw with the service. Surely it's very hard to be aware of their flaws if they don't have customer service but if they have other ways to reliable gather that data isn't it better for the customer if the service provider spends that effort fixing t…

Well, the way it usually goes is that the service provider has no reason at all to fix their flaws if they can just send to the complains into cheap "customer service" instead.

Re: If AI chatbots are the future, I hate it

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your opinion stems from never having dealt with normal people interfacing with a technical product . They're not asking the same questions you or I might, they're asking documented questions and they're doing it in obscene volume, with such little ability to help themselves. ISPs probably take the cup for worst ratio of technical issues to technical idiots. It's not just a modem, there's a line, an internal n…

> Your desire to handle that all in-house by organic, corn-fed, English-as-their-first-language meat-bags is lovely but you'd be bankrupt in a week. Or, the ISP/shareholders would have to accept slightly lower profits. I know, I know, this is totally unspeakable here, but might as well at least list the option for completeness.

You aren't getting it. The difference isn't between "high profits" and "slightly lower profits". For most businesses it's between small profits and large losses.

Re: If AI chatbots are the future, I hate it

#157
post #11

The problem is that this is not an AI chatbot, at least not in the sense the term AI is thrown around right now. Chatbots like this have been wasting people's time for a few years now. A modern LLM should not have any problem to detect whether the user has a problem with the connection or their wifi. I'm still optimistic that support chats are a field that may actually see improvements through (otherise overhyped IMH…

It's also not the AIs fault that the CS rep was terrible. Had there been no AI bot, Jeff would've just gotten the bad solution right away (read 20 minutes) – success?

Re: If AI chatbots are the future, I hate it

#158

Is this thread comprised from bots or just plain ignorance? AI Chatbots have been outperforming human agents in every category imaginable. Why wouldn't you want to talk to an AI agent until it can't help you and routes you to a human? Human wait times have always been insane, upwards of 30 minutes for any service i've used, why not just talk to an AI NOW until a human can come online?

> why not just talk to an AI NOW until a human can come online? There is no difference between talking to an AI and getting nothing accomplished and just waiting on hold and getting nothing accomplished.

tbh i would rather talk to AI that can accomplish tasks for me rather than talking to human customer support that will require me to wait on call for 30 minutes and then get routed to different departements and explain the issue again and again and then get to someone who can actually do what i want them to do . I dont think todays AI can do that but we will get there.

Re: If AI chatbots are the future, I hate it

#159
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were there entirely ad-powered business models with customer facing support before the Internet? I can think of magazines and radio, but by definition they had localised reach, and there was no actual "users" that might need support, unlike many Internet ad-funded freeware.

You're ignoring that the support situation has gotten significantly worse the past decade, while the internet existed. Try contacting AliExpress support. You used to immediately get a human agent. Now you're trapped in LLM hell.

> You're ignoring that the support situation has gotten significantly worse the past decade, while the internet existed.

Because much of the Internet has scaled up drastically?

To your example of AliExpress, how many more users do you think they have now compared to a decade ago? How much do you think their support volume has increased? Therefore it's entirely natural that they've looked at avenues of cutting costs.

Re: If AI chatbots are the future, I hate it

#160
post #22

Would be good if companies using AI chatbots had some sort of technical quiz to filter technical from non-technical customers. If they pass the quiz, assume the user knows what they're talking about and that the problem won't be solved by router/WiFi restart (or whatever simple solution they have in the book). Instead just connect directly to specialized technical support.

Shibboleth https://xkcd.com/806/

awesome stuff :D
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