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Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

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Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#151

Post by adamiscool8 »

sbarre wrote: post #118
adamiscool8 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it no longer the most expensive part of downtown? Obviously there are rich suburbs.

It has never been the expensive part. The Glebe, Sandy Hill, Rockliffe, Island Park, etc.. All those parts of Ottawa's core have always been more afluent than the downtown by the Parliament. The rise of new condos in that area has probably improved it somewhat in the last 10 years but it's still far from "afluent".

Point stands regardless, but it is relatively affluent to it's surroundings here: https://neighbourhoodequity.ca/economic-maps/

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#152

Post by nick_ »

adamiscool8 wrote: post #145
nick_ wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Dennis: Think about it. She’s out in the middle of nowhere with some dude she barely knows. She looks around her, what does she see? Nothing but open ocean. “Oh, there’s nowhere for me to run, what am I gonna do, say no?” > Mac: Okay…that seems really dark though. > Dennis: No, no, it’s not dark. You’re misunderstanding me, bro. > Mac: I think I am. > Dennis: Yeah, you are. ‘Cause if the girl said no, then the answ…

So no, they didn't.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#153

Post by mandmandam »

throw0101b wrote: post #133
mandmandam wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument was used (a lot) to decry suffragette protests and desegregation protests. I for one am glad that women and black people didn't take it too seriously. You may want to read some MLK - he had some very clear words about the liberal who demands civility in the face of oppression.

> You may want to read some MLK - he had some very clear words about the liberal who demands civility in the face of oppression. It is not about acting civilly. It is about messaging. If non-movement people consider you as a bunch of jackasses, do you think they will join your cause, or even have sympathy towards it? You need to communicate your message—words and actions—so that, at the very least, people will have a…

You seem to be trying to conflate blocking a road and honking your horn with violence... In order to defend fucking with non-violent protesters bank accounts directly (and very illegally).

Lots of people claimed that anyone who didn't respect lockdowns and wear masks were being "violent" - is that what you're trying to do here?

> If you're actually good, then people will have a positive opinion of you and your goals.

Lol. I really don't know how anyone could say that with a straight face. Was MLK popular with people who thought segregation was cool and fun?

Or is your argument that he was wrong to act as he did...

Is Trump "actually good" because people love him?

That logic ain't logicing man. Idk where you got that idea but it isn't explaining reality very well is it.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#154

Post by akira2501 »

threeseed wrote: post #139
akira2501 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the credit network used to finance terrorism? If we can't prevent terrorism then isn't it an advantage to have them move their funds on a network that can be completely traced and retroactively inspected? We'd prefer if terrorists use cash? Or we believe that if they can't use Amex it's impossible to use cash and therefore terrorism is defeated? Also, when the startups compete with Visa/Mastercard, they prov…

> We'd prefer if terrorists use cash Yes. It is a million times easier to catch criminals trying to physically launder large volumes of cash than it is to track money flowing through multiple companies (on/off-shore, crypto, different owners, different jurisdictions etc). Why do you think AML/KYC is such a priority ?

> It is a million times easier to catch criminals trying to physically launder large volumes of cash

Which is odd because all the arrests and cases I see published all catch the money laundering activity because it reached the banking system, not because an alert officer spotted large volumes of physical cash.

> Why do you think AML/KYC is such a priority ?

I honestly don't know. I can't see any evidence which suggested it needed to be made a priority generally. It looks like most of this fraud involves real estate.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#155

Post by AnotherGoodName »

robocat wrote: post #141
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s actually super easy to do but the public will hate it. Pass a law that credit card surcharges MUST be added onto the final price. That 2% cashback you get for using your Amex isn’t due to Amex generosity. That’s literally what retailers pay. Right now I will absolutely use my cc for anything I can. It’s literally cheaper than cash and users of cash subsidise all my purchases. The only way to fix this is to force…

edited: ignore this comment please, I totally misunderstood the comment! > Pass a law that credit card surcharges MUST be added onto the final price. You must be a rich person that supports monopolies! And clearly you know nothing about low margin retail businesses. If your profit margin is 5% and the credit card fees are 2.5% then you are saying profit should be split 50%/50% with Visa/Mastercard. In New Zealand ori…

That’s exactly what I’m proposing though. Right now it’s cheaper to pay by credit card because I don’t pay the surcharge directly, it’s paid by all customers including cash customers. I have no choice but to pay by credit card. My proposal above is exactly what is required to make cash a choice.

Btw did you read some idea that the surcharge applies to all purchases? The idea of charging the credit cards a surcharge equal to the surcharge they take from the retailer is better for all except the big credit card companies. Customers can use cash without subsidising the credit card users, credit card users can still use credit cards but they won't get ahead vs cash, retailers don't have to absorb the surchage (and ultimately partially pass it on to cash customers).

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#156

Post by somerandomqaguy »

pelorat wrote: post #67

> Payments Canada, found that a majority of respondents were worried about the prospect of cashless stores and want to maintain the option to use cash — which is free from bank fees I mean, that is the problem right there. We don't generally have that problem in Europe because we don't rely on credit cards. Here's there no extra fee for using Apple Pay or Google Wallet. Pay with cash, your card, NFC... it's all the s…

Not credit card fees, bank fees. Almost every bank account in Canada has some sort of monthly service fees associated with them. You need to have a considerable amount of wealth accumulated in order for those fees to be waived. If my understanding of how Europeans bank is correct, such fees aren't as common.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#157

Post by thethimble »

Magi604 wrote: post #137
sbarre wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also problematic for the thousands of solo micro-businesses that operate in markets and pop-ups now (i.e. Etsy IRL). Most of them have a phone and a Square dongle, and that's it. Asking all those one-person shops and merchants to start carrying around a float and writing out paper receipts (or having some kind of battery-powered till+printer) is a pretty big burden.

Stores have been doing this since the dawn of...stores. Or at least when currency was first invented. There are very established processes and practices for this sort of thing. It's a cost of doing business, in the same way people pay for rent etc. for their stores.

The fact that many such businesses have become cashless suggests that the ROI of accepting cash is not worth the cost/burden. Therefore it’s not a fundamental “cost of doing business” and instead just a mechanism to reach a subset of customers that prefer cash.

I agree that mandating businesses to support cash is unnecessary regulatory burden. After all, shouldn’t it be the shopkeeper’s right to do business how they please?

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#158

Post by jt2190 »

I think it’s more constructive to think about what risks are borne by each party in a transaction, how much it costs to take on each risk, and which party is better equipped to manage each risk. Then you can construct the thing that people actually want, and that thing is almost certainly not cash as we think of it today.

For example, if I order something and pay cash, I’m taking on very different risks than if I pay with a credit card. Similarly the risks to my privacy are very different with each one. Maybe we need a third option that sits somewhere between the two.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#159

Post by adamiscool8 »

ryandrake wrote: post #143
adamiscool8 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, everyone in all of Canada who disagreed with the ruling elite's opinions at the time saw themselves strong-armed and targeted by both legislation and vitriol from public officials. The greater the perceived threat to destabilizing belief in the elite opinion from any subset, the more severe the measures taken - as we saw, including unreasonable wartime actions to force compliance.

Well, since I don't live in Canada, I'm just going to have to hit the eject button and trust you that every single person in the country holding a particular political belief, likely tens of millions, were personally and directly targeted by the government with enforcement action, as ridiculous as that sounds.

In any country people are personally and directly affected by subjugation measures directed at their ingroup, I don't think that's particularly controversial.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#160

Post by xyzzy_plugh »

The comments here are truly bizarre. It seems like a few commenters here feel that this is an opportunity to derail on-topic discussion in order to forward some political agenda.

The truth is Canada is already a cashless society. Cities, rural areas, farmers markets, country fairs... I haven't carried cash for years and I can't remember the last time I needed to.

Earlier this year I went on a vacation to a remote tropical island and took out cash only to discover that nowhere even accepted cash! I was stunned.

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