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Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

bloomberg.com

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Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#151

Post by JumpCrisscross »

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #124
jdminhbg wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 I guess you can argue; they say that's all encrypted and they're sharing the OS with security researchers to audit. 3 I don't think is applicable, OpenAI is not getting screenshots for awareness, they're just getting "I asked Siri 'write a limerick about the DMA,' Siri can't do that, can you do that?"

I find (2) to be kind of a BS narrative. It’s not like they are open-sourcing the code. All big tech companies have security audit programs. Does that assuage your security concerns when Google, Meta, etc do it? Basically, what they are saying is they are doing it on the backend and you should give them credit for doing it on the frontend because some security researchers are going to get a Disneyland tour. Personall…

> not like they are open-sourcing the code

“We’ll take the extraordinary step of making software images of every production build of PCC publicly available for security research. This promise, too, is an enforceable guarantee: user devices will be willing to send data only to PCC nodes that can cryptographically attest to running publicly listed software” [1].

[1] https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute/

Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#152

Post by archagon »

alwillis wrote: post #146
Rinzler89 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's Apple saying to EU regulators we can't provide these features securely and privately They can't, or they won't ? Just because they say they can't do something doesn't mean it's true, especially when that something can negatively affect their profits and market share, so then they weaponize it as "think of your security!". Considering Apple's insane wealth and technical expertise, it's definitely possible, they…

The EU accounted for more than $24 billion in revenue last quarter, the most revenue outside of North America. Obviously this isn't something Apple takes lightly. Take a look at Apple's Private Cloud Compute white paper [1] and explain how Apple's supposed to make it DMA-compliant without sacrificing its security and privacy guarantees. Short answer: they can't without essentially starting over. EU residents will get…

Why did they not take the DMA into consideration when designing Apple Intelligence?

Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#153

Post by al_borland »

MilaM wrote: post #142
al_borland wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company has been trying to tell my team to be “global” and support the EU for a good 10 years. Every time we even look it’s such a mess that we kick the can down the road and let the people who actually live there deal with it. Their footprint it vastly smaller than what we have in the US, yet seemingly much harder to manage due to all the regulations.

With all the red tape the EU has created, I think it's still better than dealing with 27 completely separate jurisdictions.

That was the issue, it still felt separate (I'm not sure if this was due to regulations or legacy systems). I was given logins to access their systems, and there were over a dozen, and no one ever did explain what they were all for. When I asked, the best I got was that it depended on the country, but even that wasn't too clear. I never did bother to figure it out. Eventually I transferred out of the team that had to care about that and had them delete my accounts. It's cropping back up in my new team, but so far the team in the EU is handling everything for their region. If they try to have us take if over, I think we'll need to run everything we do past legal, because none of us in the US have any idea what all the laws and rules are, not being around it.

Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#154

Post by talldayo »

crazygringo wrote: post #143
talldayo wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that all three of those things are documented and present threats to Windows and MacOS (as well as iOS and Android), I guess so. Those users seem to "surivive" fine.

I've never heard of ransomware, botnets, or keyloggers on iPhones. I know less about Android, and how much it depends on whether you only install apps from within the Play store or not. But no, I wouldn't call it "surviving" if you get hit by ransomwhere and have to pay hundreds/thousands of dollars to restore your data, or lose your data.

> I've never heard of ransomware, botnets, or keyloggers on iPhones.

Pegasus?

Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#155

Post by Aloisius »

alwillis wrote: post #146
Rinzler89 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's Apple saying to EU regulators we can't provide these features securely and privately They can't, or they won't ? Just because they say they can't do something doesn't mean it's true, especially when that something can negatively affect their profits and market share, so then they weaponize it as "think of your security!". Considering Apple's insane wealth and technical expertise, it's definitely possible, they…

The EU accounted for more than $24 billion in revenue last quarter, the most revenue outside of North America. Obviously this isn't something Apple takes lightly. Take a look at Apple's Private Cloud Compute white paper [1] and explain how Apple's supposed to make it DMA-compliant without sacrificing its security and privacy guarantees. Short answer: they can't without essentially starting over. EU residents will get…

> The EU accounted for more than $24 billion in revenue last quarter, the most revenue outside of North America. Obviously this isn't something Apple takes lightly.

"Europe", not the EU.

And Apple's "Europe" segment isn't even just Europe. It also includes India, the Middle East and Africa.

Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#156

Post by [deleted] »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #151
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find (2) to be kind of a BS narrative. It’s not like they are open-sourcing the code. All big tech companies have security audit programs. Does that assuage your security concerns when Google, Meta, etc do it? Basically, what they are saying is they are doing it on the backend and you should give them credit for doing it on the frontend because some security researchers are going to get a Disneyland tour. Personall…

> not like they are open-sourcing the code “We’ll take the extraordinary step of making software images of every production build of PCC publicly available for security research. This promise, too, is an enforceable guarantee: user devices will be willing to send data only to PCC nodes that can cryptographically attest to running publicly listed software” [1]. [1] https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute…

[deleted]

Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#157

Post by geysersam »

e38383 wrote: post #26

I can totally understand why Apple is doing this. And I hate it. Mostly because the regulations are not technical enough to get followed within soft- and hardware. The EU is just preventing any (most, maybe just a few, but „any“ from my perspective) new (consumer) technology now.

Tech monopolies are preventing new technology

Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#158

Post by vletal »

someNameIG wrote: post #149
vletal wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the implication? I do not believe that DMA forces Apple to make iPhone sharing to Windows. How would it reduce "security"?

I think it's not that they have to make it able to screen share with Windows, but allow the same APIs they use to screen share to Mac open to anyone that want's to make a iPhone to Windows/Linux/Android screen sharing app.

That is just a baseless speculation.

Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#160

Post by mrtksn »

ppetty wrote: post #118

I’m more surprised that it’s taken this long for a big bad tech company (or companies) to exclude software or hardware releases to the EU. No matter how much of a hit to their (very large) bottom line, Apple or any company should be welcome to skip the EU if they se fit to go that route. I'm not sure Apple’s really out of line to do this either [1] … aybe they’ll never completely pull out of the EU, but if they do ma…

China, India and Russia were already protective of their space and EU was the only large open market where the American tech giants were able to operate freely. Then EU went protective too but not by banning but making set of rules. An American company disregarding the European rules wouldn't be received nicely, Europe is keeping its market open just says follow the rules that we put in place so we don't have to ban foreign tech like China and the USA did.

I don't see Europeans siding with the American companies on this, if it becomes a conflict it may easily end the same way it ends in China and the USA: Banning foreign owned companies operating in certain industries due to national security reasons.

Have you heard about the rise of far-right in the EU? These right wingers are not the same as the American ones, they don't intent to make America Great again but to make Europe great again. They don't obsess with abortion and stuff but with foreign influence and the only reason some of these are sympathetic to Russia is because they see it as "enemy of their enemy, America". Even in UK there's non-negligible anti-Americanism and the lefties(among which anti-Americanism is more widespread) are about to take power.

If Trump wins the elections and the USA insulates itself as he promises, you can reasonably expect to see the market of Apple and all other tech companies dropping to US-only.

The EU smartphone market will be filled with Korean/Chinese brands who will be willing to cooperate, likely even partnering with local capital to come up with European brands in this.

But who knows, a lot can change with the wars and political realignment going on. It's also possible for Europe to completely give up in exchange of protection but that seems less likely as the US is pushing in the other direction.

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