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Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

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Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#151

Post by FreebytesSector »

javajosh wrote: post #108
jellicle wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One approach to answering questions like this is to build a little model This test question isn't testing that. > What I’m saying is that answering this question well requires experience with microscopes or similar devices. It sure doesn't. It requires you to be able to read and comprehend text. That's it. The subject could have been Martian fizzbozzles instead of microscopes. > Being able to answer the question wi…

> It requires you to be able to read and comprehend text. That's it. The subject could have been Martian fizzbozzles instead of microscopes. And therein lies a great fallacy which is still widely believed in our post-Enlightenment world. But the map is not the terrain. A mental model cannot be completely represented with words or pictures, or anything. Words and pictures, even good ones chosen for pedagogical value,…

You put this wonderfully. People are very little more than our experience with the world itself. Without external stimuli, we would be trapped within our own minds and only be capable of evaluating a limited set of possibilities. Merely the act of touching an object generates complex cognitive experiences. This is not possible by abstraction alone.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#153

Post by pbhjpbhj »

nollidge wrote: post #138
exDM69 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a small cramped apartment, but I'd really like to do some wood works. So I bought some balsa wood and a few small tools to do some miniature models. It's not like doing real carpentry but will do until I get myself a shack to fit a band saw in.

Not sure where you live, but there might be a Makerspace nearby you can utilize.

Does anyone know of such places in the UK?

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#154

Post by drone »

cglace wrote: post #118
scott_s wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US still makes plenty of things. They're just not made by humans.

There are still applications where welding and making things on the spot from metal are important. Mining operations come to mind.

And, there are thousands of welders employed in many other industries - let us not forget that you can't sit around and stop production while you wait six months for the Chinese to make a replacement for a one-of-a-kind machine. On the street where I have my company (a niche-market hardware company), there are, I would take a guess at, at least 75 people employed primarily to do welding. The street is approximately 1 mile long. We also weld quite often - I wouldn't hire an employee whose answer to every question is "we can't do that process until I find someone to sell me the item I need to perform it." Why buy a $75 tool when I can make a functional one for $0.35 in materials and ten minutes of time?

My best-paid employees are those who can weld, drill, operate machines, and do all of the other things necessary to keep us in the business of making products - and also think creatively and logically.

Contrary to popular belief, China is not the manufacturing panacea - for most of us making small-market products (think a few hundred units a month), China is exorbitantly expensive. Most of my competitors either do their work in-house or out-source to other U.S. companies.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#155

Post by dreamdu5t »

david_shaw wrote: post #131

Here's my simple response to a particularly complicated (and touchy) issue: children that do extremely well on standardized tests, especially from an early age, do not need them. If you're consistently in the 90+ percentile in reading comprehension, critical thinking and mathematics from an early age, you are probably not only great at standardized tests, but an intelligent child to boot. These are the kids that shou…

Everyone is not of equal aptitude. It's not possible for everyone to be book smart.

Your attitude about "unfairness" is part of the problem. Schools must stop treating kids as equals when they are clearly not.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#156

Post by dreamdu5t »

japhyr wrote: post #8

There are a number of schools which are now refusing to participate in their states' "mandated" testing. There are a number of conditions that have to be in place for a school to take this step: - The school has to be really good at educating students. It has to be clear to visitors that high-level learning is happening every day. The school must be able to prove that all of its students make a successful transition…

That requires competition. Whenever you mention competition and private schools people scream, "But the poor children! They have no chance that way!"

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#157

Post by libraryatnight »

I liked the article but I couldn't take issue with the test question.

Is it a sign of a certain way of thinking that I read the test question, read the provided instructions, answered correctly, and then wondered how on earth anyone could miss a question where the answer is printed above?

I'm not being snarky or mean spirited, I honestly do not understand how anyone - whether they'd used a microscope or not - could look at a piece of provided text, look at a question regarding the text, and then answer incorrectly when a multiple choice selection is provided that is essentially snipped verbatim from the source text that addresses the question exactly. They literally give the answer. I used to wonder this when I took standardized tests as a kid, too.

Are they preying indecisiveness, or trying to make them feel it's a trick question? Maybe that's where I should be taking issue? That if they were familiar with a microscope they'd feel more confident in choosing the clear answer?

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#158

Post by iRobot »

gcheong wrote: post #92
exDM69 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, too, was fortunate to have woodworking, mig welding, electronics soldering, combustion engine repair and a little aircraft building as a part of my middle-high school education. I enjoyed it a lot and I learned a lot of stuff that I would have not learned by reading books and taking exams. But I guess American kids won't need any of that since everything is manufactured in China these days. You just need a lot of…

Manufactered in China, but designed and prototyped in the US. Which would you rather have your kids doing?

Total and utter bollocks.

Millions of Chinese students have or will have done engineering and science at the degree level, that combined with the Chinese business acumen will almost certainly ensure them both designing and building the things we require in the future.

The USA will however have plenty of patent lawyers to ensure they are all sued if they try to get too clever.

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#159

Post by onemoment »

People are talking about how this test is biased against poor kids and how kids with no context won't understand. Does anyone here know of a middle school without microscopes? I went to a poor grade school and we had microscopes (granted they were old)

Re: Kids should be building rockets and robots, not taking standardized tests

#160

Post by wissler »

timwiseman wrote: post #142
CodeMage wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm just too cynical, but I see that as a form of passive aggressive manipulation. The way I read that kind of comment is "I know the mob will downvote me instead of discussing the topic; you don't want to be part of the mob, do you now?"

Yes, but that is often justified and understandable. HackerNews has one of the better communities out there but I know that getting downvoted without an explanation annoys me. This happens even on HackerNews occassionally.

Occasionally?
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