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I like the RP2040

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Re: I like the RP2040

#151

Post by peteforde »

geerlingguy wrote: post #133
peteforde wrote: post #120

I also like the RP2040, but I'd like to explain why I migrated away from it for my current project. First, the drama with PlatformIO really rubbed me the wrong way. I'm taking the side of the developers who are hurt by confusion in tooling. Second, the top of the line ESP32-S3 comes in a module format that can be dropped on a PCB with basically nothing but a few decoupling capacitors. The RP2040 requires careful plac…

It seems like Espressif are in the same situation as Pi w/r/t PlatformIO[1]. As an outsider, it sounds like PlatformIO was trying to extract a very large annual payment from RPi and Espressif, and that was after the initial support was added in, and some of the community started adopting it. It's a weird situation, but I think PlatformIO built up a dominant position by supporting all these platforms and accepting com…

Thanks for all of your rational contributions to those many threads, Jeff.

It is an extremely weird situation, and a deeply bad look. If I was pressed for an opinion, I would say that I wish Eben had taken the high road and gone all in on supporting PIO despite the tangy mystery aftertaste for the simple reason that it would be a net-positive for developers.

The way things stand, migrating away from the Arduino IDE to using VSCode with RP2040 feels like you're being actively messed with; there's so many projects and forum posts that sound like the right path, when it seems like the actual answer should be super simple. This is super painful for newcomers.

Re: I like the RP2040

#152

Post by dave78 »

amelius wrote: post #60
joezydeco wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was on the fence about using it for a small commercial project I'm doing, but the lifetime has been put out long enough (2041 at this point), and it's so freaking cheap that I'm going to do a one-time buy of 10 years worth of parts. Lack of code security and onboard flash weren't dealbreakers for me here, but others will have more stringent requirements. QSPI is so incredibly cheap now.

Ok. One thing I'm worried about is that the tooling is made for hobbyists only. Is there a way to do everything from the commandline with FOSS tools and without installing e.g. the Arduino-IDE?

> Is there a way to do everything from the commandline with FOSS tools and without installing e.g. the Arduino-IDE?

Yes. In fact, the official getting started guide[0] is all command-line based, with an optional chapter later on about using VS Code if you wish.

I have a low volume product in production using the RP2040 and I've never once opened up any sort of GUI for developing the software or programming it.

[0] https://datasheets.raspberrypi.com/pico/getting-started-with...

Re: I like the RP2040

#153

Post by crote »

I have mixed feelings about the RP2040.

On the one hand, it's a great chip for hobbyists. It's cheap, it's easily available, it's easy to build a board around, and it offers plenty of stuff for your average application.

On the other hand, it's definitely a bit lacking from a professional perspective. The peripherals are fine, but once you start looking into the details it's easy to run into limitations. That XIP interface is great - but it doesn't support writing so you can't hook up an FRAM chip and expand your memory. That PIO interface is amazing - but having only 2x32 instructions is quite limiting once you try to implement more complex interfaces. And where are my Timer/Counters? No capacitive touch? Analog on only four pins? No 5V tolerance? No high-speed clock input for the PIO modules? Why can't I run the bootloader off the internal ring oscillator? Hmm, a USB-C PHY sure would've been helpful...

I was also surprised about its poor ESD performance. An Atmega or STM32 can handle the occasional zap just fine - ESD protection is more of a nice-to-have on external-facing ports. The RP2040? If you don't add external protection to every single pin you are basically guaranteed to see a few of them die due to day-to-day use.

To summarize: neat chip, great for hobbyists, wouldn't be my first choice in professional environments.

Re: I like the RP2040

#154

Post by doubloon »

crote wrote: post #153

I have mixed feelings about the RP2040. On the one hand, it's a great chip for hobbyists. It's cheap, it's easily available, it's easy to build a board around, and it offers plenty of stuff for your average application. On the other hand, it's definitely a bit lacking from a professional perspective. The peripherals are fine , but once you start looking into the details it's easy to run into limitations. That XIP int…

Raspberry pi was originally an educational non profit

Re: I like the RP2040

#156

Post by jvanderbot »

flohoff wrote: post #80

The issue is that its a comparison about apples to peaches. The RPI2040 is JUST the chip whereas the ESP32 come with tons of peripherals for your liking. From Wifi/Bluetooth Antenna, LI Battery Controller, Ethernet whatever, Display or Camera Connector - You choose. And then we have a multitude of even CPU choices and when running on a coin cell it makes a difference powering a second, unnecessary core or even wifi.…

Is there a non-Chinese equivalent of ESP that compares in terms of module integration re: Wifi et al? (but perhaps not cost)

Re: I like the RP2040

#157

Post by crote »

peteforde wrote: post #120

I also like the RP2040, but I'd like to explain why I migrated away from it for my current project. First, the drama with PlatformIO really rubbed me the wrong way. I'm taking the side of the developers who are hurt by confusion in tooling. Second, the top of the line ESP32-S3 comes in a module format that can be dropped on a PCB with basically nothing but a few decoupling capacitors. The RP2040 requires careful plac…

> The RP2040 requires careful placement of about a dozen components, including a crystal.

To be fair, the chip is designed to make these really easy to place. There's pretty much one single layout which makes sense, and it provides easy access to all the pins you could possibly want. Combine that with the excellent documentation they have provided, and it's essentially just a multi-part drop-in design you don't ever have to think about again.

It did look a little bit intimidating at first, but it was a genuinely pleasure to implement.

Re: I like the RP2040

#158

Post by peteforde »

danhor wrote: post #146
peteforde wrote: post #120

I also like the RP2040, but I'd like to explain why I migrated away from it for my current project. First, the drama with PlatformIO really rubbed me the wrong way. I'm taking the side of the developers who are hurt by confusion in tooling. Second, the top of the line ESP32-S3 comes in a module format that can be dropped on a PCB with basically nothing but a few decoupling capacitors. The RP2040 requires careful plac…

The Pi Pico is intended to be the module format (and can be delivered on reels and used with some PnP machines), though it is much larger than it needs to be for this purpose (and this might be why you didn't mention it). I have only implement touch buttons for hobby projects using a different MCU, but is there a reason to not just use the PIOs for touch sensing?

I can appreciate intentions, but a Pi Pico does not compare favorably to a chip module in any regard.

It's huge, it only exposes 26 GPIOs.

I'm not saying Pico sucks by any means. It has uses and places. It's just very not this: https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/espressif-systems/...

Re: I like the RP2040

#159

Post by olabyne »

peteforde wrote: post #120

I also like the RP2040, but I'd like to explain why I migrated away from it for my current project. First, the drama with PlatformIO really rubbed me the wrong way. I'm taking the side of the developers who are hurt by confusion in tooling. Second, the top of the line ESP32-S3 comes in a module format that can be dropped on a PCB with basically nothing but a few decoupling capacitors. The RP2040 requires careful plac…

what is the drama with platformIO ?

Re: I like the RP2040

#160

Post by milesvp »

HyulianGrader wrote: post #83
flohoff wrote: post #80

The issue is that its a comparison about apples to peaches. The RPI2040 is JUST the chip whereas the ESP32 come with tons of peripherals for your liking. From Wifi/Bluetooth Antenna, LI Battery Controller, Ethernet whatever, Display or Camera Connector - You choose. And then we have a multitude of even CPU choices and when running on a coin cell it makes a difference powering a second, unnecessary core or even wifi.…

It's safe to assume he's talking about the chip in both cases. You can connect either of them to a battery charger, camera, or nuclear reactor but all of those 'peripherals' are completely irrelevant to this comparison.

FYI. In the embedded space, peripherals refer to the chip's built in capabilities. Typically there is a peripheral that handles SPI, a peripheral that handles I2C, a peripheral that handles USART. There might be a peripheral that handles USB, or I2S, or any number of different abilities. It's either transistors or microcode on more sophisticated MCUs that allows these peripherals, and not every pin is connected to every peripheral, which can make chip selection even trickier. It really sucks to start designing around a chip that looks like it does everything you need with enough pins to only find out that once you start doing pin layouts you can't use both USART2 and I2C because they use the same pins. Worse, is when the datasheet makes this difficult to discern, and you only find out when doing some firmware work on a devboard.
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