Introducing Copilot+ PCs • Hacker News Board

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#151

Post by coder543 » Mon, May 20, 2024, 7:11 PM UTC

Tankenstein wrote: post #146

coder543 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, 7B LLMs only need about 4GB of RAM. There is extremely little quality loss from dropping to 4-bit for LLMs, and that “extremely little” becomes “virtually unmeasurable” loss when going to 8-bit. No one should be running these models on local devices at fp16 outside of research, since fp16 makes them half as fast as q8_0 and requires twice as much RAM for no benefit. If a model is inadequate for a task at 4-bit, t…

The original commenter mentioned 70B, not 7B.

I had already read the comment I was responding to, and they actually mentioned both.

Here's the exact quote for the 7B:

"Even running a 7B will take 14GB if it's fp16."

Since they called out a specific amount of memory that is entirely irrelevant to anyone actually running 7B models, I was responding to that.

I'm certain that no one at Microsoft is talking about running 70B models on consumer devices. 7B models are actually a practical consideration for the hardware that exists today.

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#152

Post by arcanemachiner » Mon, May 20, 2024, 7:11 PM UTC

RedShift1 wrote: post #34

candiddevmike wrote: post #20

Is Microsoft Copilot and GitHub Copilot the same thing?

Yesn't, just like Teams and Teams are the same thing.

Come again?

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#153

Post by cjk2 » Mon, May 20, 2024, 7:12 PM UTC

drevil-v2 wrote: post #87

Being the designated "tech" person for my extended family and friends circle, I don't think I could recommend this to any of them because of the privacy nightmare. At least with Apple you have a single vendor who is vertically integrated and makes a huge song and dance about data privacy. Even if you discount their PR and marketing spin, IMHO you are still miles ahead of the likes of Microsoft + (pick one) HP, Asus,…

I was speaking to someone at the weekend about this. She said "but why would I need this"?

I suspect most people aren't putting AI into any purchasing decisions. Most people really actually don't give a shit about it. They just want things to work exactly how they did before without people moving stuff around because they just want to get stuff done.

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#154

Post by re-thc » Mon, May 20, 2024, 7:13 PM UTC

andyp-kw wrote: post #61

I can't remember seeing Qualcomm CPU's before. The name makes me think of WiFi cards. With Intel stock taking a dive recently, I can't help but feel that the processor landscape is changing.

This is Nuvia, whom Qualcomm acquired earlier. They came from Apple before that.

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#155

Post by ptero » Mon, May 20, 2024, 7:13 PM UTC

grugagag wrote: post #141

rogerthis wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it has been said so many times, tech privacy aware people are the minority. It won't make any difference for my non-tech neighbor (in fact, he will probably be delighted if it helps him with something).

Not if you tell them beware, all this will be used against you in some way in the future.

Unless there is a specific, believable, near term risk people will just ignore it.

Most would submit genetic material to 23andme and similar organizations with no restriction on its use. Yes, if could theoretically backfire not just on them, but also on their kids. But unless they see it as a near-term likelihood they will not care enough. My 2c.

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#156

Post by pentagrama » Mon, May 20, 2024, 7:14 PM UTC

jsheard wrote: post #27

delusional wrote: post #18

The AI is the least interesting part of this announcement. Microsoft is giving ARM another try with a special branding that's supposed to guarantee some level of performance and quality. That's possibly huge news.

It's also notable that Qualcomm is officially upstreaming kernel support for the Snapdragon Elite platform that Microsoft is pushing, so those systems may actually not suck at running Linux.

Yes, and Lenovo is releasing a new Qualcomm-powered ThinkPad, which are known to be a Linux-friendly laptops.

> The ThinkPad T14s Gen 6 is, of course, business-focused. It will have the same Snapdragon chip, storage capacity, and webcam but will support up to 64GB of memory and one of three 14-inch display options: an IPS with up to 400 nits of brightness; an IPS touch display; or an OLED that covers 100 percent of the DCI-P3 color gamut, also with 400 nits of brightness.

>Lenovo expects the Yoga Slim 7x 14 Gen 9 to start at $1,199 and the ThinkPad T14s Gen 6 to start at $1,699. Both will be available in June.

Source: https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/20/24160819/lenovo-qualcomm-...

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#157

Post by adastra22 » Mon, May 20, 2024, 7:14 PM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #125

adastra22 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 11 ARM isn't locked down at all. I run it on a daily basis.

You can run any legacy Win32 .EXE on it that you want? I didn't know that. Good to hear if true.

It's actually kinda annoying once I started paying attention, as many software vendors just detect "Windows" and give you a x86/x64 installer, even when the company offers a ARM64 build that would presumably be faster or be more energy efficient. I installed a bunch of stuff that were Intel binaries without even knowing that I wasn't running native. But I haven't noticed any performance issues, and yeah everything just works.

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#158

Post by chucke1992 » Mon, May 20, 2024, 7:14 PM UTC

nerdjon wrote: post #137

chucke1992 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is to all apps and developers gradually transition and develop with ARM support - after all even the mobile devices will be running on ARM sooner or later so future apps, games will be developed with ARM in mind anyway. x86 apps will be supported - with some paid support for example. But it all depends on the market share of ARM at one point. But you can run DOS apps still so with emulation layer - a…

> But it all depends on the market share of ARM at one point. Right thats kinda my point, unless I have missed it I have yet to see any real talk about ARM on custom built machines and I doubt gamers are going to give that up anytime soon. Apple was able to force the transition to happen. I highly doubt Microsoft is going to risk actually dropping x86 from Windows on any reasonable timescale and there has to be somet…

> Right thats kinda my point, unless I have missed it I have yet to see any real talk about ARM on custom built machines and I doubt gamers are going to give that up anytime soon.

A lot of gaming these days is running on mobile phones and portable PCs - and now laptops - will highly likely leverage ARM sooner or later. Add to that some eGPU with Nvidia cards and you get a monster.

Intel is in a deep trouble.

>Unlike when Apple announced that all of Mac was transitioning, there isn't a reason for a developer to think that anytime soon they can drop x86, so why complicate what they have now by adding ARM?

ARM is the future as there is a desire to have long battery life and performance increase. Microsoft right now does have x86 emulation layer and app support right now is much better already than it was before (in RT era where it did not even have the emulator).

Devs are developing apps across all the devices and ARM based Mac is already requires you to develop ARM compatible apps.

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#159

Post by golergka » Mon, May 20, 2024, 7:15 PM UTC

How much ads would I expect on this out of the box? A banner in the start menu, ad notifications, what else?

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#160

Post by Dalewyn » Mon, May 20, 2024, 7:15 PM UTC

nerdjon wrote: post #137

chucke1992 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is to all apps and developers gradually transition and develop with ARM support - after all even the mobile devices will be running on ARM sooner or later so future apps, games will be developed with ARM in mind anyway. x86 apps will be supported - with some paid support for example. But it all depends on the market share of ARM at one point. But you can run DOS apps still so with emulation layer - a…

> But it all depends on the market share of ARM at one point. Right thats kinda my point, unless I have missed it I have yet to see any real talk about ARM on custom built machines and I doubt gamers are going to give that up anytime soon. Apple was able to force the transition to happen. I highly doubt Microsoft is going to risk actually dropping x86 from Windows on any reasonable timescale and there has to be somet…

>I have yet to see any real talk about ARM on custom built machines and I doubt gamers are going to give that up anytime soon.

The vast majority of gamers game on smartphones and tablets with ARM processors.

Some of the biggest gaming hits recently have also been cross-architecture and cross-platform, namely Genshin Impact and Honkai: Star Rail. Native ARM and x86 releases, runs on Windows, Android, and iOS. There are also gaming hits like Fate/Grand Order that don't have an x86/Windows release at all due to not even considering desktops/laptops.

The future is already here.