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The drinking fountain button

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Re: The drinking fountain button

#151

Post by radlad »

weinzierl wrote: post #145
weinzierl wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not drink American tap water, at least not in the cities that I travelled. It always smelt like chlorine and from what I googled apparently up to 4 milligrams per liter are regularly allowed in the US. This is definitely not a thing in western Europe. We don't need to talk about the things that you cannot taste or smell and what happened in Flint.

I cannot add to my post above, but since people don't seem to take it well, I'd like to add some data to back it up. Here is the link to a paper that compared contaminants in drinking water in various developed countries. When it comes to residual chlorine the USA demonstrated the highest levels followed by Singapore and Canada. After these three countries there was a huge gap before the UK and other countries which…

From your first link, Table 1, I see that the United States EPA regulates chlorine to 0.2-4 mg/L. The upper bound is lower than the rest of countries with regulations. Some countries - including the European Union, United Kingdom, and Ireland - appear to have no regulations at all.

Residual levels show 3 mg/L of chlorine in the United States which is higher than most other countries (Singapore, and to a lesser extent, Canada, excluded.) What I don't understand is why you see these levels, which are considered safe by most health agencies, as a cause for concern. As another commenter pointed out, the chlorine exists to ensure the water is safe to drink.

Re: The drinking fountain button

#152

Post by weinzierl »

radlad wrote: post #148
weinzierl wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Why is this a problem? Flavor?" Yes, if it already smells after chlorine, how can I know what else is in there. If it was from a clean source, it would not need chlorine in the first place. > "If we're talking about unknown unknowns, this is true of anywhere in the world." No, water supply in Germany is closely monitored at the source, at the water works and even close to the user in apartment buildings and rental…

> No, water supply in Germany is closely monitored at the source, at the water works and even close to the user in apartment buildings and rental properties. Also, our water supply is not privatized, like in the US. A disaster like Flint could not happen here. I advise you look into the Flint water crisis, because your understanding doesn't sound accurate. The decision to change the source from one body of water to a…

I don't think it is a mischaracterization to say that privatization played a significant role in the Flint water crisis. For example The Intercept headlined "FROM PITTSBURGH TO FLINT, THE DIRE CONSEQUENCES OF GIVING PRIVATE COMPANIES RESPONSIBILITY FOR AILING PUBLIC WATER SYSTEMS".[1]

That municipal decisions played an important role too, is - if anything - an argument for the thesis that the water supply in the United States should not be trusted and not against it.

[1] https://theintercept.com/2018/05/20/pittsburgh-flint-veolia-...

Re: The drinking fountain button

#153

Post by equalc »

alistairSH wrote: post #117
Balgair wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what US cities are you in that do not have public fountains in parks and whatnot? I'm struggling to think of any parks or high pedestrian areas around me that don't have a public fountain, nor in any of the cities I've lived in. Like, yeah, you're not going to have a fountain out in the middle of a parking lot. But they, to my recollection, seem to be everywhere that people tend to be walking a lot. As for Euro…

DC Metro, specifically Reston. The park across the street doesn't have one. There are none in the town center (gotta buy Starbucks or similar). And I don't recall seeing any public ones in downtown DC, other than the Mall and Smithsonian areas. I already stated they do exist in quasi-public spaces (airports, offices, etc). Like, if I'm running errands downtown, and I'm not in the tourist zone, there really isn't much…

[dead]

Re: The drinking fountain button

#154

Post by quickthrowman »

weinzierl wrote: post #144
ssl-3 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it already smells like chlorine, you can know what isn't in there: Living organisms that want to kill you.

That is why you monitor the water supply. It is done in my rented apartment by a company commissioned by the landlord and it is done daily at the water works. If there are to many living organisms they add chlorine and inform the public, which happens only every couple of years. The alternative is dead organisms plus a quite toxic substance in your water.

> The alternative is dead organisms plus a quite toxic substance in your water.

Chlorine being toxic in drinking water is your personal opinion. Your opinion is not shared by the people who are experts in drinking water treatment in the US. Chlorine kills microorganisms that aren’t filtered out in previous water treatment steps.

Please cite some evidence that chlorine in drinking water is dangerous to humans at concentrations lower than 4mg/L.

Re: The drinking fountain button

#155

Post by [deleted] »

weinzierl wrote: post #145
weinzierl wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not drink American tap water, at least not in the cities that I travelled. It always smelt like chlorine and from what I googled apparently up to 4 milligrams per liter are regularly allowed in the US. This is definitely not a thing in western Europe. We don't need to talk about the things that you cannot taste or smell and what happened in Flint.

I cannot add to my post above, but since people don't seem to take it well, I'd like to add some data to back it up. Here is the link to a paper that compared contaminants in drinking water in various developed countries. When it comes to residual chlorine the USA demonstrated the highest levels followed by Singapore and Canada. After these three countries there was a huge gap before the UK and other countries which…

[deleted]

Re: The drinking fountain button

#156

Post by radlad »

weinzierl wrote: post #152
radlad wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, water supply in Germany is closely monitored at the source, at the water works and even close to the user in apartment buildings and rental properties. Also, our water supply is not privatized, like in the US. A disaster like Flint could not happen here. I advise you look into the Flint water crisis, because your understanding doesn't sound accurate. The decision to change the source from one body of water to a…

I don't think it is a mischaracterization to say that privatization played a significant role in the Flint water crisis. For example The Intercept headlined "FROM PITTSBURGH TO FLINT, THE DIRE CONSEQUENCES OF GIVING PRIVATE COMPANIES RESPONSIBILITY FOR AILING PUBLIC WATER SYSTEMS" .[1] That municipal decisions played an important role too, is - if anything - an argument for the thesis that the water supply in the Uni…

If you read The Intercept article, you'll see that the company was hired to test the water after the Flint water crisis began, in response to citizen complaints.

This is entirely separate from the federally mandated requirements around testing that was performed by government agencies.

> That municipal decisions played an important role too, is - if anything - an argument for the thesis that the water supply in the United States should not be trusted and not against it.

We arrived here in response to your misinformed claim that "A disaster like Flint could not happen here" because "Germany is closely monitored at the source, at the water works and even close to the user in apartment buildings and rental properties. Also, our water supply is not privatized, like in the US. A disaster like Flint could not happen here."

I've demonstrated that the US has similar policies in place, and neither the water supply nor the mandated testing for metals were privatized, yet the Flint disaster did happen. People and governments are fallible. Corruption and criminal negligence happens everywhere.

Re: The drinking fountain button

#157

Post by paulmd »

CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #146
matwood wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU toilets are often of the 'poop shelf' design. Which end up requiring cleaning and multiple flushes after every bowel movement.

It depends very much on the country, for example The Netherlands is a poop shelf design country, but Belgium isn't. No idea what's the reason behind it.

lower-calorie, higher-fiber european poops don't generally reach the size of american fast-food poops. but everyone loves the feeling of breaking the surface, so to promote a sense of social well-being some countries have artificially lifted the poop instead.

(the above is false, but it is unironically there so that you can look at your poop. admire the shape, the volume, the coloration. and just wait until you learn there's an easy at-home diagnostic test for diabetes mellitus!)

Re: The drinking fountain button

#158

Post by weinzierl »

radlad wrote: post #151
weinzierl wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot add to my post above, but since people don't seem to take it well, I'd like to add some data to back it up. Here is the link to a paper that compared contaminants in drinking water in various developed countries. When it comes to residual chlorine the USA demonstrated the highest levels followed by Singapore and Canada. After these three countries there was a huge gap before the UK and other countries which…

From your first link, Table 1, I see that the United States EPA regulates chlorine to 0.2-4 mg/L. The upper bound is lower than the rest of countries with regulations. Some countries - including the European Union, United Kingdom, and Ireland - appear to have no regulations at all. Residual levels show 3 mg/L of chlorine in the United States which is higher than most other countries (Singapore, and to a lesser extent…

"From your first link, Table 1, I see that the United States EPA regulates chlorine to 0.2-4 mg/L. The upper bound is lower than the rest of countries with regulations. Some countries - including the European Union, United Kingdom, and Ireland - appear to have no regulations at all."

The European Union is not a country and it is not surprising that it has no guideline, because the member states have. That the United Kingdom and Ireland are similar to the US is not surprising. I could not find a source for the value of 5 mg/l for Germany, most sources say 0,3 mg/l but the actual text of the current law doesn't corroborate that. What it does is strictly regulate the reaction products of chlorine, which makes sense from a health standpoint.

"Residual levels show 3 mg/L of chlorine in the United States which is higher than most other countries (Singapore, and to a lesser extent, Canada, excluded.)"

I am not a native English speaker, so forgive me if I read this wrong, but the paper says of all the considered countries the US has higher residual chlorine levels than all the other countries (Singapore, and to a lesser extent, Canada, included)

In other words US is highest, followed by Singapore and then Canada.

"As another commenter pointed out, the chlorine exists to ensure the water is safe to drink."

As the paper shows most developed countries have safe drinking water without chlorine. So the question is not why I am against it but why the US needs it in the first place .

Re: The drinking fountain button

#159

Post by weinzierl »

radlad wrote: post #156
weinzierl wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is a mischaracterization to say that privatization played a significant role in the Flint water crisis. For example The Intercept headlined "FROM PITTSBURGH TO FLINT, THE DIRE CONSEQUENCES OF GIVING PRIVATE COMPANIES RESPONSIBILITY FOR AILING PUBLIC WATER SYSTEMS" .[1] That municipal decisions played an important role too, is - if anything - an argument for the thesis that the water supply in the Uni…

If you read The Intercept article, you'll see that the company was hired to test the water after the Flint water crisis began, in response to citizen complaints. This is entirely separate from the federally mandated requirements around testing that was performed by government agencies. > That municipal decisions played an important role too, is - if anything - an argument for the thesis that the water supply in the U…

I don't think my claim is misinformed and I don't think the US and Germany are similar at all when it comes to water supply. Here we have multiple levels of security that would definitely have prevented a crisis similar to the one in Flint, even considering that corruption and criminal negligence could be at play.

I also think we have different views what privatization means. Here privatization begins at the location where the water pipe enters the building. There is just no scenario where something like in Flint could play out because the incentives are not there.

If that does not convince you I'd like to point you to the list of water crisis in Wikipedia. There have been none in western Europe while the US had Flint and Jackson.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_crisis

Re: The drinking fountain button

#160

Post by ssl-3 »

recursive wrote: post #143
ssl-3 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just put the clothes in the dryer and tell it to dry them. It has a multitude of different modes, but "Normal" succeeds at this every single time -- regardless of the amount or dampness of what I put in there. Am I doing this wrong?

You are not wrong, and I'm jealous of your dryer. There are like 5 levels on mine ranging from soggy to slightly damp.

It's just a regular ass-dryer. It has a way to detect moisture (and therefore will run until clothes are dry, whatever that takes), but AFAIK that's pretty common and has been for a long number of decades. (I've never really had an issue with a clothes drier unless things had become broken or clogged -- they've all worked fine until they don't, and then they get fixed or replaced.)

But you should be jealous of my toilet: The American Standard Champion 4. It just flushes shit. There's no long-winded swirling water display to make a spectacle of dancing turds. Instead, it is fast and to the point: Push lever, SPLASH, gurgle, and the shit has disappeared. Every single time, without fail.

It scares children.

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