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SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

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Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#151
post #85
post #20

This is a very, very bad article that reeks of LLM-generation. If you want to actually understand this bill, read Zvi's analysis: https://thezvi.substack.com/p/on-the-proposed-california-sb-...

I think Zvi is missing some critical points about the bill. For example: >Before initiating the commercial, public, or widespread use of a covered model that is not subject to a positive safety determination, limited duty exemption, a developer of the nonderivative version of the covered model shall do all of the following: >(1) Implement reasonable safeguards and requirements to do all of the following: >(B) Prevent…

From Zvi's article:

> The definition of covered model seems to me to be clearly intended to apply only to models that are effectively at the frontier of model capabilities.

> Let’s look again at the exact definition:

> (1) The artificial intelligence model was trained using a quantity of computing power greater than 10^26 integer or floating-point operations in 2024, or a model that could reasonably be expected to have similar performance on benchmarks commonly used to quantify the performance of state-of-the-art foundation models, as determined by industry best practices and relevant standard setting organizations.

> (2) The artificial intelligence model has capability below the relevant threshold on a specific benchmark but is of otherwise similar general capability.

> That seems clear as day on what it means, and what it means is this:

> 1.

> If your model is over 10^26 we assume it counts.

> 2.

> If it isn’t, but it is as good as state-of-the-art current models, it counts.

> 3.

> Being ‘as good as’ is a general capability thing, not hitting specific benchmarks.

> Under this definition, if no one was actively gaming benchmarks, at most three existing models would plausibly qualify for this definition: GPT-4, Gemini Ultra and Claude. I am not even sure about Claude.

> If the open source models are gaming the benchmarks so much that they end up looking like a handful of them are matching GPT-4 on benchmarks, then what can I say, maybe stop gaming the benchmarks?

> Or point out quite reasonably that the real benchmark is user preference, and in those terms, you suck, so it is fine. Either way.

> But notice that this isn’t what the bill does. The bill applies to large models and to any models that reach the same performance regardless of the compute budget required to make them. This means that the bill applies to startups as well as large corporations.

> Um, no, because the open model weights models do not remotely reach the performance level of OpenAI?

> Maybe some will in the future.

> But this very clearly does not ‘ban all open source.’ There are zero existing open model weights models that this bans.

So no, it does not seem that anything was missed.

Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really understand the long term plan, or maybe I don’t believe lawmakers understand where we are going long-term with this stuff. We’re still in the very early days. Unless the academic community really drops the ball, in 5 or so years they’ll be training models around the quality of the current state of the art on professors’ research clusters (probably not just at R1 universities). I’d be shocked if, in the…

maybe I don’t believe lawmakers understand where we are going long-term with this stuff. Wait, you're saying that a bunch of legislators who believe the Earth is 6000 years old may not have a valid perspective on complex technical matters? No. Say it isn't so.

I guess it always just seems weird to me when they see something correctly as a rapid and dramatic change, but they don’t play out the obvious trajectory, and then come up with restraints that only make sense in the context of current technical limitations.

Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#154
post #49
post #34

> The creator of a model can not ensure that a model is never used to do something harmful – any more so that the developer of a web browser, calculator, or word processor could. Placing liability on the creators of general purpose tools like these mean that, in practice, such tools can not be created at all, except by big businesses with well funded legal teams. This matches my thoughts on why this is ultimately a b…

As I understand this law does not mandate you to ensure anything. It requires you to follow best practices (to be determined), report safety incidents, etc. You are not even liable for safety incidents, you just need to report them, although it may be embarrassing. Overall, it seems highly reasonable.

Nothing drives fear into my heart like the phrase “best practices”. Never in my career has it ever meant anything remotely reasonable.

Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#155
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What states have good weather year round, already have large urban centers, and better laws and taxes than California? That's basically what it amounts to. That's why cities in Texas and Florida are growing. Seattle has terrible weather. Washington gets cold and their large cities are mismanaged to the point that they're undesirable to live in for well-off families.

How are they mismanaged other than having incompetent police?

As someone who lives in Seattle I can tell you at least two things 1) the homeless population and use of drugs out in the open on sidewalks in the city has gone up significantly and no plan for addressing. 2) the city management tends to be anti-tech, things like pushing Amazon and others out with the head tax and the gig worker min hourly pay and all that which basically shut down use of Uber eats and other delivery services due to misunderstanding economics (which they are now scrambling to reverse since the workers themselves hate it).

Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#156
post #151
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Zvi is missing some critical points about the bill. For example: >Before initiating the commercial, public, or widespread use of a covered model that is not subject to a positive safety determination, limited duty exemption, a developer of the nonderivative version of the covered model shall do all of the following: >(1) Implement reasonable safeguards and requirements to do all of the following: >(B) Prevent…

From Zvi's article: > The definition of covered model seems to me to be clearly intended to apply only to models that are effectively at the frontier of model capabilities. > Let’s look again at the exact definition: > (1) The artificial intelligence model was trained using a quantity of computing power greater than 10^26 integer or floating-point operations in 2024, or a model that could reasonably be expected to ha…

I honestly don't understand how this is responsive to what I wrote.

Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Nobody has been killed by AI Some of us worry that billions of people will be killed by AI in the future -- possibly without anything that you or the average decision-maker might regard as a warning. (They're likely to be killed all at the same time.) I.e., it is more like a large asteroid slamming into the Earth than a stream of deaths over time such as produced by the deployment in society of the automobile (excep…

Safety and alignment stopped being about preventing AI from killing all humans a while ago. Unless you think that "don't say anything potentially offensive" is in-scope with "don't kill humans and don't take over the world by any means necessary to carry out your prompt."

I agree, but since neither I nor the person I responded to have used either word, what is the relevance?

Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#158

This is a well-articulated response to the SB-1047 bill. I want to underscore the undercurrent of the message — that with the proposed regulations on creators, it will accomplish the opposite of what it is intended to do. The landscape will be less open and diverse, handing the power to a few. Another point that gets buried is that AI is about the data. Without the transparency of what these models are built from, it…

> The landscape will be less open and diverse, handing the power to a few.

Proponents of the regulation approach probably wouldn't state it this way, but if I'm understanding their arguments correctly, I think they want that, because regularing a few very powerful corporations is easy. Regulating a ton of small people/startups is hard. When you genuinely believe that some of the output from LLMs is literally dangerous to some people, it's not unreasonable to decide that the "freedom" of people to run and develop models to compete is unimportant compared to protecting society from dangerous text or images.

Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#159

Honest question -- if models (much like code) are open-sourced anonymously, what can governments and politicians do about it? This sounds like the "export-restricted cryptography" foolishness of the 90's all over again.

Seize your domain name. Force anyone to refuse to do business with you and or give up enough info to find you and put you in prison anywhere in the US or any country with an extradition treaty which is most of the better places to live.

Re: SB-1047 will stifle open-source AI and decrease safety

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is called regulatory capture, which could definitely be happening here.

Politics are depressing :/ Has the tech industry always been so cutthroat, or is this a new trend? Maybe I just didn't hear about tech companies lobbying for power in the past?

The tech industry spends just as much lobbying as other large businesses in the us [1]. Fiduciary duty more or less forces larger corporations to engage in lobbying, considering the great value per dollar spent.

[1]: https://www.opensecrets.org/

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