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I continue to no longer attend vintage computer festivals

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Re: I continue to no longer attend vintage computer festivals

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my life, it's that the only people with room to have large wooden furniture were the Boomers and their parents who could afford to live in 2.5k+sq foot houses. My whole apartment couldn't hold the furniture from my parents living room.

When my grandmother passed, she left a house full of all this furniture, china, antiques and various knickknacks that she wanted her family to split up amongst themselves. Only her children (my Boomer parents and aunts) wanted any of it. The cousins in my generation and younger didn’t want any of it. We have nowhere to store all this… stuff. Our generation can barely afford space to live let alone rooms dedicated to…

My grand parents had a lot of dishes/furniture/photos/books that they saved for us to inherit. For a while, we tried to let them know we weren't interested and we encouraged them to sell it or donate it, but they either couldn't part with it or wanted us to have it.

We realized the best solution was just to express thanks and gratefulness to them and then just give/sell to a junk disposal/reseller guy after they passed.

Re: I continue to no longer attend vintage computer festivals

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically a valid question, but imho a problem if you take the network oart seriously. Most of these festivals are more about shared nostalgia than objective appreciation of technology from a specific time. Like watching one of those videos from LGR. Watching him power up an old computer and hearing that "thunk" sound is beautiful. And slighty offtopic, but I think nostalgia is fun when shared with people. Being no…

Yeah and being nostalgic around people who don't share it is difficult, since if you talk about it then they will find you insufferable. Unrelated but I can remember when a friend of mine came back from a long, glamorous trip and suddenly stopped sharing in our usual moments of nostalgia. They acted like they were embarrassed. It sucked because it made me believe that they were ashamed of who they used to be, and I f…

I met with some old college friends and we were discussing some of our antics at the time. I sort of cringed when being reminded of the lame stuff I had been doing at that time. That was me then, and now I'm a different person. I don't think I'm not being genuine though.

Re: I continue to no longer attend vintage computer festivals

#153
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now try finding a solid wood table that doesn't cost $3,000+.

Literally the first result on the site I checked [0], solid wood table on sale for 339 €. Do you want to move the goalposts even further? [0]: https://www.otto.de/p/gozos-esstisch-scots-pine-series-essti...

As a woodworker I would love to grab a goalpost and drag it 30 meters further down the field - pine is not wood, pine is an organic cardboard with superior strength and durability to cardboard, but is otherwise the same material.

(You did make your point though. I just really vehemently dislike pine as a building material for furniture)

Re: I continue to no longer attend vintage computer festivals

#154

This is a real storm in a hissy teacup stuff. One guy's coveted old computer magazines is another guy's paper recycling. Maybe the author should have first checked to see if these were any use better elsewhere.

I know nothing about this stuff and have never had the desire to "collect" anything. But it seems like part of the problem is that the author received these materials from other folks who trusted him to find a good home for them on. So he feels a sense of responsibility to the folks who gave him the stuff.

Re: I continue to no longer attend vintage computer festivals

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an Art of Manliness podcast that talks about this: https://www.artofmanliness.com/lifestyle/homeownership/declu... It really opened my eyes to the fact that most of what you value or hold dear will have no value to others, especially if it can't be resold. As a practical minimalist (rather than a strict one) it's informed my personal practices a fair bit.

I like going to estate sales. Sometimes you find interesting things. But mostly, it's just piles of, frankly, crap. And in a weird way, it's sort of helping me deal with some of my tendencies to collect crap. Once I'm dead, 75% of it will be thrown away by someone hired to deal with the estate, maybe 50% of the rest will be sold, and the rest will once again go in the garbage. That screwdriver I'm keeping even though…

A pile of items, sorted by the owner, has information in how it is organized that gives it value beyond the sum of the resale value. And the moment someone else sees that pile, it's a pile of crap.

This is what terrifies me about getting a brain operation. To me, my brain is my universe ... but while I am drugged out and wide open on a table, my brain is just 8 pounds of fruit punch they are debating whether has spoiled. Who would champion its value without my own presence?

I live in the middle of nowhere New Hampshire. I have to drive a 2 hour round trip to get a specific brass screw, if I can't find one in my pile of crap in the woodshop's cabinets of drawers of boxes of envelopes. If I died, someone would toss all of it into a metal recycling scrap bin for 8 cents per pound. But to me it's worth 8 dollars per ounce, because of the information I have stored in it that no one else can access.

It's the same general reason why my work desk is a mess to everyone but me; but I can earn a livelihood out of the state of my desk, my files, my folders.

I think I wrote this reply for only myself but I sure got a boost out of it.

Re: I continue to no longer attend vintage computer festivals

#156
post #28

I was in Google Patent Litigation, and we actively collected old stuff, for possible use as prior art. I even went to Beryl Nelson's house before she died to collect her old Bell System Technical Journals. A lot of old stuff has no value to anyone. That can be hard to accept, but it's true. Even old wood furniture -- no one wants it. Old PC or Byte Magazines? Forget it; they're all over.

> Even old wood furniture -- no one wants it. Old PC or Byte Magazines? Forget it; they're all over. I think the former is pretty true, but old PC magazines are still important to keep around. For one, they can be digitized to take up virtually no physical space (unlike furniture). Secondly, once digitized and OCR'd to make searchable, they're a valuable resource for finding out when certain products or technologies…

If you have the right ones from the right time you can sell them for between £17 and £35 a pop...how would I know...

Re: I continue to no longer attend vintage computer festivals

#157
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that it's already been digitized. All of it. The stuff in your attic isn't a valuable historic artifact; it's deep in the trough of no value.

You'd be surprised how little of the niche pre-internet stuff is digitized. There are some exceptions (national-circulation newspapers, some English-language books), but it's a minority of what's been published.

People have absolutely no idea how niche things were - every city of moderate size (maybe a million?) had an independent computer magazine of some sort, some literally mimeographed pages stapled together, others flashy magazine quality productions.

And they had columnists and journalists and everything. Heady time.

Re: I continue to no longer attend vintage computer festivals

#158
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would've been courteous to offer it back to the donor, if they weren't equipped or willing to archive or distribute it. I'm guessing that's probably not standard practice, but surely it's common for people donate things to be archived because they're in some way important to the donor.

This. It's what any minimally civilized adult does in any context, to respect someone else's efforts or valuables regardless if a thing is valuable to yourself. At least enough to try to give it back. At least enough to warn "hey, I'm just going throw this away". It sounds like what happened here is individual turnover, where the entity that accepted the material is not the same entity that discarded the material. It…

Yes, they should have tried to give it back or, ideally, just not accepted in the first place absent a concrete plan. And, yes, it's worth understanding that not everyone (including university archives as well as volunteer organizations) has the level of enthusiasm about donated physical "stuff" as you do even when you think they really should for whatever reason.

However, as someone involved in an archiving project with a volunteer organization which changes people around a lot, I understand all too well that dealing with boxes of magazines like this is tough. If they're already scanned, great; the paper itself has very little value especially if you're not a library of some sort. If they're not, you're probably asking an organizations to spends multiple $10Ks to scan.

Re: I continue to no longer attend vintage computer festivals

#159
post #28

I was in Google Patent Litigation, and we actively collected old stuff, for possible use as prior art. I even went to Beryl Nelson's house before she died to collect her old Bell System Technical Journals. A lot of old stuff has no value to anyone. That can be hard to accept, but it's true. Even old wood furniture -- no one wants it. Old PC or Byte Magazines? Forget it; they're all over.

> Even old wood furniture -- no one wants it. Old PC or Byte Magazines? Forget it; they're all over. I think the former is pretty true, but old PC magazines are still important to keep around. For one, they can be digitized to take up virtually no physical space (unlike furniture). Secondly, once digitized and OCR'd to make searchable, they're a valuable resource for finding out when certain products or technologies…

>they can be digitized to take up virtually no physical space

But someone has to do it if it hasn't already been done. And that costs money/time.

Re: I continue to no longer attend vintage computer festivals

#160
Again, former VCFederation (Mid Atlantic and National) volunteer here. I was only a volunteer when this donation came in and was part of the team that made sure this donation got a good home later on. No one involved at either end of this is still actively involved with VCF, so the OP is taking an organization task to because of a lack of institutional knowledge. I offered to privately explain what really happened on Twitter (X) and was blocked as a result and made out to be accusing OP of being a liar. I only want to interject the facts as I know them and maybe offer up a couple of opinions.

When it was donated, the policy was take everything that anyone wanted to donate. So many people were thrilled to volunteer time to "rescue" just about anything, a laudable goal, and very few people volunteered to spend time to sort through the donations, even if only to make it fit in a finite space.

The structure at the time was a national (still unelected to this day) board and an executive director. My role, at the time of the donation, was as a volunteer who spent an insane amount of hours working in the warehouse to find ways to fit things and count things so that they could be put out for surplus sale. At one point, the warehouse contained over 60 Commodore 64 floppy drives. But this wasn't hoarding, this was being buried in unopened boxes and no one keeping track of what to keep and what to rehome or even what was in the warehouse.

Up until about 3 years ago, if you went to a VCFestival East and purchased "VCF Surplus", it was because I and one or two others spent countless hours trying to count what was in the warehouse. All of that money raised was earmarked to warehouse improvements, I might add. We opened hundreds of boxes to count equipment and try to sort what paper was and wasn't archived and even built a library that was intended to be moved to a climate controlled space (I believe it still has not been moved, but it is at least accessible as a library instead of hundreds of closed boxes of paper). Paper that was needed to be archived was archived. Paper that was considered important enough was added to the library. Paper that wasn't as important (like popular computer magazines) was offered over and over again to the membership. Almost everything found a good home. This, however, explains why the donation wasn't returned. It was parted out as part of a bigger solution and dealt with on a piece by piece basis. Having literally been there when the donation was made, it was clear that this was odds and ends that had long ago been checked for archiving. So this, if only in my opinion, was dumped on VCF as a convenient, free, storage opportunity. Does anyone really think it would have been donated to a warehouse without climate control by the ocean if there was any hint of archiving needed? By one of the most well known archive activists on the planet? Yet OP uses the implication that history has been lost to create unnecessary drama. No history has been lost and a lot of history has been saved. A lot of history is out in the world, even if maybe in private hands, instead of spoiling in a warehouse directly exposed to salt water air. And yes, climate control is being worked on, I hear donations are accepted, but do know that most of the stuff still in the warehouse was heading towards recycling or worse when it ended up in the warehouse.

The warehouse is now managed by an *elected* VCF Mid-Atlantic Steering Committee (something I originally proposed, co-wrote the bylaws, and was a founding member of). I don't know what they are and aren't doing now, but I do know none of them were involved with this mess. Taking the organization to task for a lack of institutional knowledge is fine, but ignoring primary facts stated by people who were there troubles me greatly. All the complaining blogs posts wont change the way the warehouse is run, but the membership is completely able to vote people in and out if they believe the warehouse is being mismanaged in any way. They are also always looking for new volunteers, if you are somewhat near Monmouth County New Jersey.

tl;dr: Nothing to see here. Just unnecessary drama.

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