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End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

theguardian.com

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Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#151

Post by int_19h »

zaphirplane wrote: post #119
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #43

The only thing the Gulf states have going for them is oil money and a good hub location on the Europe–Southeast Asia airline routes. Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh, Bahrain, Qatar, they all remind me of that quote from King of the Hill—they are monuments to man's arrogance. Desert cities hitting 50+ °C air temperature at midday which means air conditioning everywhere; vapid luxury in the form of expensive garish cars, shop…

Clearly you dislike gulf countries. The points raised are a mixture of facts, fiction, jealousy and dislike. You want them to boil in desert heat with some environmental appeal, while many countries pump the air full of pollution from factories or massive ICE cars I haven’t heard of back alley executions over there I don’t feel hate towards someone spending their money on 2 cars or a holiday house or whatever luxury…

In Saudi Arabia specifically, atheism is a capital crime. I think it's pretty sensible for atheists to hate a country that literally wants to kill them; do you find that strange?

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#152

Post by wasmitnetzen »

keiferski wrote: post #32
gherkinnn wrote: post #19

The whole idea of a linear city is daft. A circle is way more efficient at getting around. The dimensions of the Line are, of course, silly as well.

Is that actually true from a transportation physics perspective? I can’t imagine that a curved tram/train/etc. would be able to accelerate and decelerate as efficiently as one on a straight path.

The Line (full length) is supposed to have a footprint of 34km2, that's a circle with a diameter of 3.3km/2 miles. That's a bike-sized city. You can easily add 50% of parks and waterways to get to a nice city, that makes it 4km/2.5 miles.

And you can still build mostly straight-line trams in a circle anyway.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#153

Post by pembrook »

tromp wrote: post #101
diebeforei485 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Air conditioning is far more efficient than heating (by a factor of 4x)

It's 4x more efficient than an electric heater, but not 4x more than a heat pump [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance

It still takes less energy than heating given climate differentials, so any argument that air conditioning is “garish” and “wrong” needs to be applied to heating also (and anyone living in cold climates ie. Europeans, Americans, etc).

I see the argument that air conditioning is somehow “wrong” or “unsophisticated” on HN all the time (usually from Europeans) and it’s one of the weirdest things. I see no explanation for it other than racism.

To claim you are somehow more virtuous than Arab people because you use artificial heating instead of artificial cooling is downright hilarious given this context.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#154

Post by throw_pm23 »

mrtksn wrote: post #141
tweakimp wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, they could put money in education, research climate change and photovoltaic or other technologies and try to improve quality of life with sustainable stuff. But to the people in power, only symbols and power are important.

I think they do all that. They have plenty of universities, also their other oil rich neighbours are pouring money into British and American educational institutions to open campuses there. IIRC some Ivy league universities from the Western world have campuses in the region.

That's true but neither the students nor the instructors at those institutes are local.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#155

Post by yreg »

EduardoBautista wrote: post #143
yreg wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dubai lives from tourism now. Of course, it was bootstrapped by oil.

It also makes money from construction projects. It’s one of the big reasons they offer residence visas to people who buy real estate there. I live in Dubai but grew up in the United States. Despite what people may believe, there is freedom of religion here, women aren’t oppressed, and the government genuinely cares about having a good city to live in.

>about having a good city to live in

I don't want to open a flame war, but I visited the city during the Expo and its a highway with a stripe of skyscrapers on each side and slums beyond. It's impossible to walk anywhere. (To be fair, the public transport is pretty good, as long as you live next to the highway.)

When I read "a good city to live in" I imagine something like Vienna.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#156

Post by boesboes »

tossandthrow wrote: post #91
gherkinnn wrote: post #19

The whole idea of a linear city is daft. A circle is way more efficient at getting around. The dimensions of the Line are, of course, silly as well.

nah, a circle is daft. an sphere in space is much better. bring in that 3rd dimension!

you need to dream bigger, we need a hypercube city!

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#157

Post by keiferski »

lvl102 wrote: post #150
keiferski wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re generalizing nearly 20 million people in Saudi Arabia alone. How this is even an acceptable thing to say on HN is beyond me. The Gulf countries have more than enough expertise to manage and run their wealth for the foreseeable future. To say they’ll be poor again without oil is simply ignorant of the facts and probably related to the point I made above.

You’re right. It’s a gross generalization. But it is based on my personal and professional experience.

Yeah, and I went to Greece, a country with a population half the size of Saudi Arabia, a few years ago and got bad service everywhere. The economic data is also not good.

But I wouldn’t somehow think it’s accurate or acceptable to claim Greeks are all lazy and rude.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#158

Post by otikik »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #43

The only thing the Gulf states have going for them is oil money and a good hub location on the Europe–Southeast Asia airline routes. Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh, Bahrain, Qatar, they all remind me of that quote from King of the Hill—they are monuments to man's arrogance. Desert cities hitting 50+ °C air temperature at midday which means air conditioning everywhere; vapid luxury in the form of expensive garish cars, shop…

You are wrong, there aren't any back alleys in Doha.

It's just big lanes devoid of cars between the towers devoid of people. And then a small road connecting to the Industrial Area.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#159

Post by oefrha »

keiferski wrote: post #137
lvl102 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about the fact that education is pretty much free there. They even pay for Western institutions to set up satellite campuses. You’d think they should have the most educated and skilled labor in the world. At some point, you have to realize it’s cultural: they don’t want to work. Funny you mention Switzerland because they have some of the highest skilled labor in the world.

You’re generalizing nearly 20 million people in Saudi Arabia alone. How this is even an acceptable thing to say on HN is beyond me. The Gulf countries have more than enough expertise to manage and run their wealth for the foreseeable future. To say they’ll be poor again without oil is simply ignorant of the facts and probably related to the point I made above.

I won’t comment on culture but it is a fact that the majority of working Saudis work in bullshit government jobs where they basically collect paychecks for free, and actual labor is overwhelmingly performed by cheap migrant workers, no? Or is my information out of date? That’s an arrangement you can’t find anywhere outside the Gulf, to my knowledge.
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