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Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

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Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#151

Post by rokkitmensch »

salesynerd wrote: post #54

It's a very difficult choice to make and I have full sympathies for the lady. I also respect herc choice, considering that it was made by her own free will and complies with the law of the land. However, I still feel a bit conflicted about this situation. As per the report, she is physically fit, has a loving boyfriend, a pet cat, and doesn't seem to be in any monetary duress. Plus, she happens to be living in one of…

My partner has a loving partner, loving children, a safe home environment. Yet her abusive upbringing has left her with systemic self-regard challenges, self-regulation challenges, and very little executive functioning skills. She dips into a suicidal mode a few times a year.

Some folks have mountains of internal pain and anguish that they necessarily mask from everyone around them every day. For them, the thought of the relief of death is very tempting.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#152

Post by raydev »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #73

The Cynic and Stoic schools of anqiue philosophy found freedom in choosing death. It's a big part of why so many big name romans fell on their swords on defeat, metaphorically or literally. Self-determination was seen as a bigger virtue than life, and e.g. Cato killing himself was regarded as a way to rob Julius Caesar of ultimate victory, turning him into a sort of martyr for the philosophy. I am willing to grant th…

> Indentured servitude, extortion, social injustice, slavery. All these hinge on a human being having no way out of mistreatment. In such a society, it would be largely impossible to compel anyone to do something against their will.

Unfortunately for those of us in most of the world, we need to work jobs that may not be appealing to us at all, and may even beat us down physically and mentally over time, in order to pay bills and support families. I'd argue most people are working against their will, but it's a lever they can pull to dump money into their bank accounts.

I know I wouldn't have a 9-5 job if I truly had the choice, and I happen to like my job and have fun with it most of the time!

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#153

Post by NoGravitas »

ryandvm wrote: post #141
bheadmaster wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is yet another case of people being skeptical about the very existence of mental illness. Euthanasia for incurable cancer patients is a no-brainer, but for incurable depression sufferers? Well, their bodies are healthy. What if it's just a phase they'll grow out of? Maybe they're just faking it? They should probably be more grateful for the gifts they've received from God, and they'll be happy. Maybe t…

I think this is about certainty. We don't object to euthanasia for incurable cancer because we understand that A) it's painful and B) it's terminal. But that's not the case for depression because there are literally millions of people that have recovered or at least learned how to live with depression.

Severe depression is painful. It's often terminal if untreated, and there's no treatment that's guaranteed to work. I'm not saying euthanasia was the right choice, but sometimes, depression really is incurable. There's no way to know other than trying all the known interventions and having them fail, which may be the best criteria for being eligible for euthanasia.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#154

Post by NoGravitas »

noname120 wrote: post #8

I wonder if she tried MAOIs. Those are criminally underused. https://www.psychotropical.com/10-patient-stories-a-long-sto...

MAOIs are less used because their side-effect and risk profiles are so bad. But for a "we've tried everything else" alternative to euthanasia or suicide, sure.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#155

Post by marginalia_nu »

raydev wrote: post #152
marginalia_nu wrote: post #73

The Cynic and Stoic schools of anqiue philosophy found freedom in choosing death. It's a big part of why so many big name romans fell on their swords on defeat, metaphorically or literally. Self-determination was seen as a bigger virtue than life, and e.g. Cato killing himself was regarded as a way to rob Julius Caesar of ultimate victory, turning him into a sort of martyr for the philosophy. I am willing to grant th…

> Indentured servitude, extortion, social injustice, slavery. All these hinge on a human being having no way out of mistreatment. In such a society, it would be largely impossible to compel anyone to do something against their will. Unfortunately for those of us in most of the world, we need to work jobs that may not be appealing to us at all, and may even beat us down physically and mentally over time, in order to p…

Sure, this is the premise behind the entire current economic system. I'm asking what if that is not possible? What would a society that is by brute necessity based on voluntary cooperation look?

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#156

Post by bheadmaster »

Jenk wrote: post #127
bheadmaster wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You're not allowed" implies that someone else has the freedom to decide what is and is not allowed. All roads lead to freedom. There can be no tyranny without freedom to tyrannize - there's just no way around it.

It's not implying anything. It's explicitly telling "We as a society have decided for you" This is literally what law is. A social construct to codify (and enable the enforcement of) what is deemed moral vs amoral.

> We as a society have decided for you

Which implies that someone else had the freedom to decide what's good for you. Society is just a bunch of other people.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#157

Post by lamontcg »

raydev wrote: post #149
lamontcg wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> incurable depression sufferers? I'm just not sure that a 28 year old is really facing incurable depression. You can be in a pretty long deep depression in your 20s and pull out of it in your 30s and 40s.

Plenty of people attempt suicide after 30 or 40 or 50 as well. What's your proposed window?

I don't think its up to me to determine a "proposed window", I think its on the other side of the debate to define what "terminal" depression is.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#158

Post by foogazi »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #73

The Cynic and Stoic schools of anqiue philosophy found freedom in choosing death. It's a big part of why so many big name romans fell on their swords on defeat, metaphorically or literally. Self-determination was seen as a bigger virtue than life, and e.g. Cato killing himself was regarded as a way to rob Julius Caesar of ultimate victory, turning him into a sort of martyr for the philosophy. I am willing to grant th…

I don’t find the premise logical - that suicidal taboo prevents people from action

> Indentured servitude, extortion, social injustice, slavery. All these hinge on a human being having no way out of mistreatment. In such a society, it would be largely impossible to compel anyone to do something against their will. > At first glance, this seems like it would benefit the bullies

Sure, people can remove themselves from harm, but most of the time they will remove the harm themselves - this definitely would not favor the bully

This is where revolutions and revolts come from

Suicide taboo is not holding anyone back

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#159

Post by 1letterunixname »

An existentially unfulfilled life can be as much of a prison or torture as any physical illness. Treatment resistant depression also can cause great suffering. If I were in the condition of disability that denied living a full life, I would also contemplate an orderly shuffling off of this mortal coil. The problem now is that having raised a taboo personal right, the knee-jerk clinical patronizing automatic response is to provide therapy, counseling, and mood altering medications perhaps up to and including involuntary treatment without informed consent. They then become caught in a Catch-22 that does not prioritize an individual's wishes.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#160

Post by j_crick »

lamontcg wrote: post #145
bheadmaster wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is yet another case of people being skeptical about the very existence of mental illness. Euthanasia for incurable cancer patients is a no-brainer, but for incurable depression sufferers? Well, their bodies are healthy. What if it's just a phase they'll grow out of? Maybe they're just faking it? They should probably be more grateful for the gifts they've received from God, and they'll be happy. Maybe t…

> incurable depression sufferers? I'm just not sure that a 28 year old is really facing incurable depression. You can be in a pretty long deep depression in your 20s and pull out of it in your 30s and 40s.

> I'm just not sure that a 28 year old is really facing incurable depression.

That you don’t have or see one doesn’t mean it’s impossible.

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