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Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

theguardian.com

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Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#151

Post by marcus_holmes »

ric2b wrote: post #113
mminer237 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We still have the 8th and 14th Amendments. He's not going to get tortured.

And what did those Amendments do in Guantanamo Bay and CIA blacksites?

The whole point of Guantanamo is that it's not in the USA and therefore the US constitution doesn't apply and they can do what they want.

Which is ridiculous given that Assange was also not in the USA. Somehow US law applies to him when he has nothing to do with the USA, but not to people imprisoned on a US government facility by the US government.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#152

Post by marcus_holmes »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #22
prmoustache wrote: post #15

I still don't understand how a country can grant extradition of a non US citizen to the USA for "espionage". Every country is potentially spying on every other country and it doesn't even matter if they are supposed to be allies or enemies. The only limits are resources.

What would the alternative be? Expats can commit cyber crimes risk-free? Just don't be a citizen of the country you reside in or the country you're attacking and you're immune! They can extradite him because Australia says that they can. Most of our countries at the highest levels agreed to this. It's called international law and it's messy.

If you insult the prophet Mohammed in a Facebook post should Iran be able to extradite you from the USA to Iran in order to charge and punish you for committing that crime in their country?

Obviously not. Yet the USA does this routinely. It's effectively what Assange did.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#153

Post by dhx »

The charges currently listed are not going to age well in history books due to reasons such as:

1. Other parties are seemingly more responsible than Assange in releasing of unredacted cables, and yet these parties are seemingly not subject to repercussions. For example, the journalists who published in a book a password they had been given to decrypt an archive of unredacted cables.[1, 2] The Wikileaks volunteer who without Assange's permission provided unredacted cables to a different journalist.[3] Other parties who published the unredacted cables before Wikileaks did, using the password leaked by the journalists.[1]

2. In Manning's sentencing, a court was told by the US government that no reprisals were known to have occurred to Afghan civilians helping the US as a result of the Afghan War Logs leak.[3] By contrast there are publicly reported instances of Afghans who helped the US during the war being left behind and then beheaded [5] and tortured [6] by the Taliban. Coalition partners (UK, AU, etc) were not at all happy about this Afghanistan exit!

The UK requiring a specialty assurance seemingly forces the US to forfeit additional charges secretly sought to be added, for example, charges for Vault 7 leaks. And even if Assange was extradited to the US, the US has provided the UK with assurance that he'd be sent back over to Australia where "Free Assange" graffiti is everywhere and Assange is possibly the only issue that the Greens and National parties will ever agree upon.[7] Picture Trump and Biden traveling together and lobbying together in the same room for the same cause.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_diplomatic_cable...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiLeaks:_Inside_Julian_Assan...

[3] https://www.wired.com/2011/09/unauthorized-assange-memoir/

[4] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/bradley-mannin...

[5] https://nypost.com/2021/07/24/translator-who-worked-for-us-a...

[6] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/afghanistan-interpreter-taliban...

[7] https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/sep/05/austr...

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#154

Post by marcus_holmes »

andrewla wrote: post #141
handity wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe your hope that he will face anything like a fair trial in the US is misplaced. The conviction the US seeks under the Espionage Act is as good as automatic. There are books and numerous articles covering in minute detail the extraordinary nature of his persecution, detailing the numerous perversions of justice involved.

> The conviction the US seeks under the Espionage Act is as good as automatic I find this assessment to be unsupported. Name a single journalist successfully prosecuted under the Espionage Act. If you have to go back to the 1920s to find an example, then I think I've made my point. Ellsberg was the only journalist in modern times to even be charged under it, and his charges were dismissed.

He will not be tried as a journalist. The US govt will not recognise his status as a journalist, so none of the legal protections and precedents will be applied.

He's just some foreign civilian who aided Manning in obtaining state secrets and then published those state secrets on his blog.

He doesn't/didn't work for a recognised journalistic organisation, he doesn't belong to a journalist union or professional body, he doesn't hold a qualification in journalism. He's "just a blogger" and so none of the precedents matter.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#155

Post by mnau »

Loughla wrote: post #90
andrewla wrote: post #83

As someone who wants to see Assange go free, I continue to believe the best outcome here is for him to be extradited and face trial in the US. I do not think the government's case is strong enough to convict him, and his being acquitted at trial would be by far the best outcome possible here. The fact that he has been imprisoned in the UK without trial or conviction for the last four years is insane (he has been impr…

Honestly, do you believe he would receive a fair and impartial trial in the united states?

Yes.

That's the beauty of jury trials. Both side (defense and prosecutor) has to agree who will determine guilty/non-guilty. If it was judge, he is beholden to power structures and pressure.

Johnny Depp and Rittenhouse also got a fair trial (at least IMO) despite media frenzy.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#156

Post by marcus_holmes »

tptacek wrote: post #38

It's becoming increasingly pointless for the US and UK to litigate this as the time Assange spends in formal custody accrues, mooting any likely potential sentence he'd receive in the US. The WSJ has Assange close to a plea deal that would avoid US custody altogether.

Doesn't help if the US sentences him to death.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#157

Post by tptacek »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #151
ric2b wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what did those Amendments do in Guantanamo Bay and CIA blacksites?

The whole point of Guantanamo is that it's not in the USA and therefore the US constitution doesn't apply and they can do what they want. Which is ridiculous given that Assange was also not in the USA. Somehow US law applies to him when he has nothing to do with the USA, but not to people imprisoned on a US government facility by the US government.

The crimes the US charged occurred in the United States, and the DOJ alleges Assange's role was central to them. It's the same idea as charging the head of an organized crime family overseas with the racketeering offenses the family committed in New Jersey.

If the DOJ cannot prove that Assange's role was fundamental to enabling the offenses, and Assange can prove instead that he merely published information that could have become available to anyone, the case as I understand it fails.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#158

Post by hylaride »

willcipriano wrote: post #147
hylaride wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knowingly handling stolen (secret) property is still a crime. It's not about the embarrassment. If he only released the infamous helicopter attack or specific "criminal" documents, that'd be one thing. However, he dumped the entire diplomatic communications (among other stuff) that literally put people's jobs, careers, and even lives in jeopardy who were doing nothing illegal, immoral, or wrong. Most of the dumped da…

The people lives he "put in jeopardy" were OK with spying on every American. I care for their safety as much as they care for my privacy.

A mid-level diplomat in some authoritarian country writing a blunt opinion/analysis of its government's possibly dangerous leaders is not spying on every American.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#159

Post by tptacek »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #156
tptacek wrote: post #38

It's becoming increasingly pointless for the US and UK to litigate this as the time Assange spends in formal custody accrues, mooting any likely potential sentence he'd receive in the US. The WSJ has Assange close to a plea deal that would avoid US custody altogether.

Doesn't help if the US sentences him to death.

True. Or, they might shoot him out of a cannon. Or even nuke him.

The guy is in talks right now with the DOJ for a misdemeanor plea, a mercy termination of a prosecution in which the accused appears to have voluntarily served out the sentence pre-trial. If the extradition had gone perfectly smoothly, the C.W. seems to be that he would have been facing single-digit years. Assange is not in fact all that important.

Re: Julian Assange granted permission to appeal against extradition to US

#160

Post by juitpykyk »

FpUser wrote: post #39
juitpykyk wrote: post #18

Russia foreign minister (Zaharova) continuously asks for Assange to be released, mentioning "freedom of speech". Assange has building size graffiti murals in Moscow.

What does this have anything to do with the extradition case?

Assange is a russian agent. He's not a journalist.
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