What does Alan Kay think about LLMs? • Hacker News Board

Re: What does Alan Kay think about LLMs?

#151

Post by vinnyvichy » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 11:24 AM UTC

halayli wrote: post #73

kergonath wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "reasoning by correlation" as superstition is a brutal insight. I don’t think he is right on that one, though. Reasoning by correlation is a kind of empiricism, and it can be tested. “These things happen together” or “if I do this, then that happens” can be disproven with statistical analysis even without any understanding of the underlying mechanisms at play their causes. Superstition is beyond that; it is a belie…

Superstition is assuming a causation when you identify a correlation.

There is also, fashionable on some message boards: assuming a lack of causation after only seeing the title of a report of correlation..

(One may also link fashion/accusations of fashionability etc etc to superstition..)

Re: What does Alan Kay think about LLMs?

#152

Post by vinnyvichy » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 11:32 AM UTC

joshmarinacci wrote: post #34

layer8 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He always criticizes how everyone got computing wrong (fair enough), but never offers anything but the most vague suggestions of how to do things differently.

His entire 60 year career is a suggestion of how to do things differently. ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Kay

Eventually, after distancing themselves from their curmudgeonly creator, his ideas land in the mainstream. I'm convinced, eg, that what's loved about python has been elucidated by AK at some point, but maybe it's even good marketing not to attribute anything to him ;)

Re: What does Alan Kay think about LLMs?

#153

Post by ToucanLoucan » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 3:39 PM UTC

RodgerTheGreat wrote: post #150

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I genuinely haven't in some time read an opinion so horrifying as this. Well done.

Do you think it would have the same psychological impact if you had to ask your cell phone to read it to you?

If nothing else the irony would be painful.

Re: What does Alan Kay think about LLMs?

#154

Post by kergonath » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 5:51 PM UTC

vinnyvichy wrote: post #151

halayli wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Superstition is assuming a causation when you identify a correlation.

There is also, fashionable on some message boards: assuming a lack of causation after only seeing the title of a report of correlation.. (One may also link fashion/accusations of fashionability etc etc to superstition..)

Yes, some people confuse contrarianism for cynicism and both for wisdom.

Re: What does Alan Kay think about LLMs?

#155

Post by eska » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 8:05 AM UTC

ein0p wrote: post #98

ozten wrote: post #29

> That humans also do this all the time is “interesting”, “dangerous” etc., but it is also why trying to move from superstition (this is actually what “reasoning by correlation” amounts to) to more scientific methods is critical for anything like civilization to be created. "reasoning by correlation" as superstition is a brutal insight.

It’s great that he recognizes that most people aren’t to be trusted either. Most people outside the field are talking about “safety” as though humans never lie or make up bullshit, whereas in reality I trust GPT4 much more than I’d trust an average human, just not 100%. Literally people keep hyperventilating about “fake news” generation even though their entire news consumption already consists solely of pre approved…

The comparison is not between an LLM and an average human but an LLM and an expert on a subject.