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USB hubs, printers, Java, and more seemingly broken by macOS 14.4 update

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Re: USB hubs, printers, Java, and more seemingly broken by macOS 14.4 update

#151

Post by turquoisevar »

flaminHotSpeedo wrote: post #134

Apple updates are a joke. I have a script in my dotfiles to recognize when an apple update overwrites `/etc/zshrc` to run, among other things, a utility that rewrites your path in a nonstandard way (I don't remember the details, I think it was something related to config file load order?) Nothing I've done so far to stop the overwrite in the first place has worked.

Is there a particular reason you’re not putting .zshrc in the user’s home folder ~/.zshrc?

In any case, / root and /etc (to an extend) are part of the system volume (or rather the system volume snapshot if we want to be pedantic). With some exceptions Apple considers that fair game.

There’s a bunch of symlinking and firmlinking done to make it look like one coherent whole but only the stuff on the data volume is safe.

That said, if for whatever reason you need to put something in root you can create your own synthetic firmlink[0] with /etc/synthetic.conf.

I believe some also reported success by simply making a subdirectory under /etc and use that instead but YMMV.

hoakly goes into extensive detail with what changed with volumes on macOS (back in 2019 I believe): https://eclecticlight.co/2021/01/13/big-sur-boot-volume-layo...

0: https://derflounder.wordpress.com/2020/01/18/creating-root-l...

Re: USB hubs, printers, Java, and more seemingly broken by macOS 14.4 update

#152

Post by nwellinghoff »

nebula8804 wrote: post #145
Rinzler89 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It seems like Apple just prefers that companies release software that they will actually maintain Maybe companies prefer their way, instead of what Apple imposes on them. After all, not all companies are tech companies, who can afford large teams of expensive devs to keep updating their SW. For non-tech companies, the less dev work they have to invest in SW, the better, as that frees up resources for their main busi…

They shouldn't advertise Mac support then. Canon specifically put a Mac logo on their boxes and uses that in their advertisements.

These printer companies could also open source their drivers after a number of years. The amount of landfill printers due to driver support is kinda sad. Just tossed my old cannon that had a perfectly good scanner due to driver support and the “need” for ink for the scanner to work. Booo!

Re: USB hubs, printers, Java, and more seemingly broken by macOS 14.4 update

#153

Post by Rinzler89 »

nebula8804 wrote: post #145
Rinzler89 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It seems like Apple just prefers that companies release software that they will actually maintain Maybe companies prefer their way, instead of what Apple imposes on them. After all, not all companies are tech companies, who can afford large teams of expensive devs to keep updating their SW. For non-tech companies, the less dev work they have to invest in SW, the better, as that frees up resources for their main busi…

They shouldn't advertise Mac support then. Canon specifically put a Mac logo on their boxes and uses that in their advertisements.

Canon doesn't develop MacOS. They advertise support for the version of MAcOS that existed when they launched the printer. If MacOS decides to break compatibility over time, it's not their fault. If they're not selling the printer today, they can't also provide up to date support for the OS of today. It's up to the OS developer to ensure a stable API for printers.

Re: USB hubs, printers, Java, and more seemingly broken by macOS 14.4 update

#154

Post by callalex »

nozzlegear wrote: post #146
Rinzler89 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It seems like Apple just prefers that companies release software that they will actually maintain Maybe companies prefer their way, instead of what Apple imposes on them. After all, not all companies are tech companies, who can afford large teams of expensive devs to keep updating their SW. For non-tech companies, the less dev work they have to invest in SW, the better, as that frees up resources for their main busi…

Hang on, let's pump our brakes and take a quick peek at the calendar. The comment thread we're in was talking about the Canon D530 which was released in 2012, which supposedly broke in MacOS Monterey released in 2021. It's a stretch to call 9 years "moving fast and breaking things".

What has changed since 2012 in the document printing space that would make that perfectly good machine obsolete? Machines don’t grow on trees, they are created at terrible environmental cost.

Re: USB hubs, printers, Java, and more seemingly broken by macOS 14.4 update

#155

Post by acdha »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #153
nebula8804 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They shouldn't advertise Mac support then. Canon specifically put a Mac logo on their boxes and uses that in their advertisements.

Canon doesn't develop MacOS. They advertise support for the version of MAcOS that existed when they launched the printer. If MacOS decides to break compatibility over time, it's not their fault. If they're not selling the printer today, they can't also provide up to date support for the OS of today. It's up to the OS developer to ensure a stable API for printers.

“Break compatibility” can cover a wide range of things, however, and that’s not always so clear cut. For example, if they were relying on lax permissions or a private interface then it’s a question of how much effort the OS vendor should spend on something they never promised would work.

Re: USB hubs, printers, Java, and more seemingly broken by macOS 14.4 update

#157

Post by nozzlegear »

callalex wrote: post #154
nozzlegear wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on, let's pump our brakes and take a quick peek at the calendar. The comment thread we're in was talking about the Canon D530 which was released in 2012, which supposedly broke in MacOS Monterey released in 2021. It's a stretch to call 9 years "moving fast and breaking things".

What has changed since 2012 in the document printing space that would make that perfectly good machine obsolete? Machines don’t grow on trees, they are created at terrible environmental cost.

> What has changed since 2012 in the document printing space that would make that perfectly good machine obsolete?

I couldn't tell you to be honest, I don't even have a printer.

Re: USB hubs, printers, Java, and more seemingly broken by macOS 14.4 update

#158

Post by nozzlegear »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #148
nozzlegear wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on, let's pump our brakes and take a quick peek at the calendar. The comment thread we're in was talking about the Canon D530 which was released in 2012, which supposedly broke in MacOS Monterey released in 2021. It's a stretch to call 9 years "moving fast and breaking things".

Hold on there buckaroo. Having a 9 year old printer at home is no big deal as consumers don't usually upgrade their printers if they still work and compatible ink cartridges are still available. My parents are still running a 20+ year old Canon, because it's easy to refill cheaply. And things don't exist in a vacuum but in comparison to others. To wit, does that Canon printer from 2012 work in present day versions of…

I don't work at Apple nor do I have much more insight into their philosophy than you, so I can only refer you to my previous speculation:

> It seems like Apple just prefers that companies release software that they will actually maintain

Re: USB hubs, printers, Java, and more seemingly broken by macOS 14.4 update

#159

Post by ubercow13 »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #108
nebula8804 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like Canon is really bad in supporting driver changes in subsequent OS releases. I recall diagnosing the same issue with a colleagues Mac over 10 years ago. She updated the OS and the printer she bought with the computer 3 OS'es ago stopped working. Turns out something with how Printers were handled changed and Canon refused to release updated drivers for a discontinued machine. I recall that some third party…

Why? Windows has been the one updating itself making sure to not break backwards printer support, not the other way around. You can still use printers from the 90's on modern Windows, meanwhile MacOS seems to break support for recent printers between minor updates. It's not like they're a cash-strapped start-up, if Microsoft can afford to invest in maintaining backwards compatibility, so can Apple. Sounds like Apple…

Windows definitely does break backwards-compatibility of printer drivers. My parents had to use a Windows XP VM to print on their Canon printer for a long time before giving in and buying a new printer.

Re: USB hubs, printers, Java, and more seemingly broken by macOS 14.4 update

#160

Post by prirun »

Aloisius wrote: post #150
prirun wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks very much! I had no idea about this, but doing a find command as root did indeed find my backup. It was at: /System/Volumes/Data/Users/Shared/Previously Relocated Items/Security/hbbackup I don't know how people are supposed to know this. Plus it is taking up 50GB of space!

IIRC, it should create an alias on your Desktop called Relocated Items or something similar to them after the upgrade that pointed at it.

Thanks! I never look at my Desktop and so never noticed it. I deleted the original, moved backup today, and there is nothing on my Desktop about Relocated Items. That could be because I removed it, like an Apple smart link thing, or maybe it was never there - dunno.

IMO, if they're going to do something this drastic, they should at least have a one-time large pop-up box after the upgrade explaining that they moved things that were formerly in root, and wait for a user to confirm that they read the notice.

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