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Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

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Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#151

Post by pwpwp »

primatology wrote: post #143
krschultz wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see where he is being unreasonable. He made git with his specific method of managing the Linux source repository in mind. Now someone wants him to ignore part of his tool for their connivence and he said no. He's not saying "we should all boycott GitHub because of it". He's not saying "they're idiots for doing this". He's saying 'The Linux project works one way, GitHub doesn't support that way, so we're not u…

> He's not saying "they're idiots for doing this". Well... "github is a total ghetto of crap" "make a real pull request, not the braindamaged crap that github does"

I view that as Linus' rhetorical technique for conveying that he really means what he says.

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#152

Post by Aga »

why-el wrote: post #46
mjs wrote: post #35

It's instructive to read Linus's commits to his hobby project "subsurface": https://github.com/torvalds/subsurface/commits/master Even if I can't code like Linus, I can at least try to write commit messages like his…

It always puzzled me why his commits (and in fact standard commits) ought to start with a verb that is not in its past form. When I started using git four months ago (such a newbie), I would write something like "Fixed this" instead of "Fix this". Anybody with more insights on this? I am just curious.

A commit can be seen as a changeset. A changeset can be formatted as a patch.

Projects like Git and Linux take their contributions in as patches that are sent to the projects mailing list. As it is not merged in to the master tree at the time of publishing, it would not make sense to use past tense for describing what it should do, if merged.

Thanks to Git's great history-graph altering functions like rebase and cherry-picking, it would make even less sense. You can always take some commit and apply it to new branches or even repositories.

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#153

Post by [deleted] »

viraptor wrote: post #90
bad_user wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, all of these commands make perfect sense to me. I don't know why exactly, but I've never used a version control system that made more sense than this. I never really felt like I'm home with Perforce and SVN. Neither with Mercurial, although Mercurial is better than most. git remote rm This deletes the reference to a remote repository. The difference between Git and SVN here is that in Git you can have m…

Sure they make sense if you have it in front of you and want to know what they do. They stop making sense when you want to write them - why do you have to have different way to deal with each type of an object. Either stick to -d/-D convention, or rm/rm --force, or delete/delete --force, or something else... just don't mix up calling conventions just because you operate on a different kind of object. Same goes for li…

[deleted]

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#154

Post by marcamillion »

CodeMage wrote: post #107
marcamillion wrote: post #68

I don't mean to be overly critical, but is it just me or are the 'godfathers' of computer science starting to sound like cranky old men? I mean....ok....this pull request being inferior to the way HE (the creator of Git) imagined it (or implemented it) is a bit petty imho. What's with the complaining? I am sure this is not the first time I have heard him complaining about something on Github or some other 'new techno…

Okay, have you been following closely Linus or Crockford? I know I haven't, which is why I always start from the position of "I don't have the full context." My initial assumption is: Linus/Crockford/whoever-else-is-coming-across-as-a-cranky-old-person has seen whatever-he-is-berating or something very similar before, not just once but ridiculously often. That makes the reaction quite understandable and justified. Pl…

You know....you may be right...about 'we all want to be free to react like that when it's deserved'.

I guess it was off-putting to me because of the ephemeral effects of him being who he is. Anybody could (and probably would) complain about the way Github has implemented various features - but they wouldn't get the attention that he has gotten. Maybe that's why I perceive it as him being 'cranky'.

So maybe my criticism was unfair because I wouldn't have criticized DHH for doing the same thing - or who knows, maybe I would.

Not sure, but now I see what you mean.

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#155

Post by rapind »

marcamillion wrote: post #68

I don't mean to be overly critical, but is it just me or are the 'godfathers' of computer science starting to sound like cranky old men? I mean....ok....this pull request being inferior to the way HE (the creator of Git) imagined it (or implemented it) is a bit petty imho. What's with the complaining? I am sure this is not the first time I have heard him complaining about something on Github or some other 'new techno…

They're perfectionists and super attentive to detail. If you look around at some of the hugely successful software companies today I think you'll notice it's a pretty common trait.

Screw coddling. shakes fist in general direction

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#156

Post by marcamillion »

bithive123 wrote: post #128
marcamillion wrote: post #68

I don't mean to be overly critical, but is it just me or are the 'godfathers' of computer science starting to sound like cranky old men? I mean....ok....this pull request being inferior to the way HE (the creator of Git) imagined it (or implemented it) is a bit petty imho. What's with the complaining? I am sure this is not the first time I have heard him complaining about something on Github or some other 'new techno…

It's all about context. To someone who only knows PHP the opinions of most polyglot programmers seem cruel and elitist. Put me in a room full of Moodle developers and everyone will come away thinking of me as "that cynical guy who is always trashing everything we do". Are people so averse to acknowledging the bounds of their own experience that they discount other views over a hint of emotion? Does every cantankerous…

I think it is subjective - unfortunately.

With a bigger microphone comes greater responsibility.

I am not taking Github's side on this particular issue - but this issue struck a bigger tone (for me)...where I have seen those with a larger microphone (by virtue of who they are) seem to be complaining louder (publicly) in recent history. It could just be that their microphone has gotten louder - but if it has, to a large extent they have a responsibility to be more conscious.

Imagine if Obama complained about the food at a bakery down the street that he went to - that would effectively kill that establishment. As a patron, does he have a right to complain about disgusting food? Absolutely...as someone with the largest pulpit in the world? Definitely not. There are other means he could use to get his message across.

Then again, I am not comparing Obama's pulpit to that of Torvalds, but I think it makes the point sufficiently.

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#157

Post by [deleted] »

bad_user wrote: post #38
bermanoid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only love the style because he has enough on his side to back it up. Anyone else that acted like Linus does on a regular basis would be considered childish and arrogant. I'd take Github's version of any feature, any day, over the official git version, any time they differed - Git is a notoriously user-hostile piece of software interface-wise, and pretty much the only thing it has going for it on the usability fro…

Git is a notoriously user-hostile piece of software interface-wise It's funny you say that, because Git is the only version control system where working with branches, forks and merges in big projects is not only doable, but in 90% of the cases painless. You can't really appreciate Git until you've tried doing the same tasks in Perforce, SVN and CVS. No other similar software has the same painless approach to branchi…

[deleted]

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#158

Post by antrix »

primatology wrote: post #143
krschultz wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see where he is being unreasonable. He made git with his specific method of managing the Linux source repository in mind. Now someone wants him to ignore part of his tool for their connivence and he said no. He's not saying "we should all boycott GitHub because of it". He's not saying "they're idiots for doing this". He's saying 'The Linux project works one way, GitHub doesn't support that way, so we're not u…

> He's not saying "they're idiots for doing this". Well... "github is a total ghetto of crap" "make a real pull request, not the braindamaged crap that github does"

Full quote: "github is a total ghetto of crap commit messages and unreadable and unusable pull requests"

Conveniently left out the part most salient to Linus' argument? Linus repeatedly stresses that he thinks Github is great as a hosting service. It is the pull/commit functionality which he finds lacking.

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#159

Post by tytso »

I don't understand why people are upset with Linus's writing style. I considered what he wrote to be quite polite. He was merely stating his standards in terms of what he would and wouldn't accept (and github pull requests are on the "won't accept" list). He even explained why he wouldn't accept it.

Furthermore, the patch was deficient in other ways. (a) it was missing the Signed-off-by: header, and (b) it should have been sent to the linux-bluetooth mailing list or one of the Bluetooth maintainers, with the linux-bluetooth mailing list cc'ed.

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#160

Post by dblock »

trotsky wrote: post #150
marcamillion wrote: post #68

I don't mean to be overly critical, but is it just me or are the 'godfathers' of computer science starting to sound like cranky old men? I mean....ok....this pull request being inferior to the way HE (the creator of Git) imagined it (or implemented it) is a bit petty imho. What's with the complaining? I am sure this is not the first time I have heard him complaining about something on Github or some other 'new techno…

He's always been like that. Really that was the status quo in open source 10-15+ years ago. People were abrasive, efficiency oriented and most of the communities didn't have very many soft edges. Just off the top of my head I'm thinking of Theo de Raadt, Miguel de Icaza, Richard Stallman - hell if you were a nice guy you didn't make it on usenet back then. In the last 5 or 10 years there has been a strong shift towar…

Well said. Matz is a perfect example of what Linus is not and can never be.
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