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The case against caffeine

zantafakari.substack.com

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Re: The case against caffeine

#151

Post by gls2ro »

tlb wrote: post #106
raccoonDivider wrote: post #67

The graph titled "Caffeine Accumulation With Long Half Life" is weird. Isn't that not how half-life works? A higher blood level should mean faster elimination, but here it acts like the baseline changes each day. No matter how slow the user's clearance is, the ratio should always take the same time to get halved. Edit: actually this graph implies that people like the author would end up poisoned by a lethal dose of c…

Caffeine elimination, like all metabolic processes, isn't quite linear. At low levels the elimination rate is proportional to the caffeine concentration, so you get the "half life" exponential decay curve. But at high levels, elimination is limited by liver enzymes and decay is approximately linear. So yes, there is some level of caffeine intake that exceeds the max rate the liver can remove it and concentration woul…

Say you drink 2 cups of coffee every day.

Is there any time T where there is zero coffee in the organism?

If the answer is there is no Tm then is there an N=number of days, where there are dangerous levels of coffee accumulated in the organism?

or are we more in an equilibrium state?

Re: The case against caffeine

#152

Post by AtlasBarfed »

vinay_ys wrote: post #59

What we really know for sure is this – sleep is good, anxiety is bad. So, if you aren't getting good sleep, find ways to fix it. And if you are anxious all the time, find ways to fix it. By one tradition that's thousands of years old – Yoga+Pranayama+Meditation (linking physical/mental_movement+breadth) and fasting + eating moderately (eat only if you are hungry and eat enough to quench hunger, and eat 'satvik' food)…

Do others not get a lot of headaches on caffeine? Yeah there's ones that come with going off caffeine, but the amount of headaches days I have a month plummets once off of the stuff.

Re: The case against caffeine

#153

Post by zhivota »

woodrowbarlow wrote: post #113
zeta0134 wrote: post #66

I tried this! I went completely caffeine free for over a year and was... fine? But way more tired all the time, and generally having trouble focusing on tasks. In my particular case, I suspect caffeine is a self administered coping mechanism for mild ADHD tendencies, and without that I became much more sensitive to the food I was eating and my changing energy levels throughout the day. Eventually I realized I had sto…

i live with (more than mild) ADHD and this is something i only just realized about myself. i used to use medication, but keeping up with the schedules and appointments needed to maintain steady access to the medicine is _exactly_ the sort of thing i struggle with; these days i haven't been medicated for over ten years. i use caffeine (coffe & energy drinks), nicotine (vaping), and sugar (jelly beans) to be a function…

Another option for self medication is exercise. I've been an endurance exercise addict off and on for my whole life, it can take the place of many of your self medications, or if you can't give those up, it can at least nullify the sugar you are taking in by burning it off.

Re: The case against caffeine

#154

Post by weweersdfsd »

I recommend trying Yerba Mate as an alternative to coffee. At least for me it gives a way more balanced, long-lasting energy, rather than coffee which gives me a huge spike and then goes down fast & makes me anxious. Online I've seen lots of people have very similar experiences with it.

Re: The case against caffeine

#155

Post by milkytron »

Most people are discussing coffee, but green tea isn't really mentioned. I started limiting my coffee intake maybe 7 years ago and switched to mostly green tea, except for certain occasions.

Green tea doesn't nearly impact my sleep as much, I find it easier to stay hydrated, it doesn't give me jitters but a more calming focus, and it's a lot easier to take the caffeine in slowly, because each cup of genmaicha is maybe 20-30mg of caffeine. A pot is maybe equal to one or two cups of coffee, but with a lot more water, and a steadier slower onset.

Re: The case against caffeine

#156

Post by zhivota »

tayo42 wrote: post #108
_ink_ wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I have the same feeling about ADHD. I would like to go decaf, I really do. Like higher blood pressure is already enough reason for me for quitting it. But when I don't drink caffeine, I cannot focus on anything anymore. Now I haven't been tested for ADHD so I don't have access to real ADHD meds. But those come with side effects as well, so I might just stay with caffeine.

Did you quit long enough that you got through the withdrawal? Caffeine withdrawal is pretty bad, and you'll probably have trouble thinking. The first time I quit cold turkey, I felt dumb. Couldn't think clearly or focus until I got past it.

I quit caffeine on a regular basis, every few years I'll quit, go a year or two without, then go back on, usually because of something like having to do a lot of international travel where it absolutely helps.

When I quit I do a controlled taper, usually over 3 weeks or so. Currently on a taper now, I'm at 19% of original dose after about 2.5 weeks, and considering pulling the plug completely any day now. I find the hardest part is moving from about 50% original dose to 25%, that's usually where I start to experience the classic headaches and such. I think it's because it's about the window where I start to process all the caffeine out of my body each day, rather than always having some around.

Re: The case against caffeine

#157

Post by ydant »

gruez wrote: post #15
debt wrote: post #3

If you're going to drink decaf, be sure to drink decaf prepared via the Swiss water method. It has the least additives, healthiest option and tastes pretty good.

James Hoffmann did a video on decaff coffee recently[1]. In it he basically says the "scary chemicals" aspect of other caffeine removal processes is basically overblown, and the reason why decaf coffee sucks has less to do with the solvents used and more to do with how the decaffination process makes the beans more prone to staling. In short, there's nothing really special about the swiss water process in particular…

The point I really liked about that video is that decaf drinkers are probably the most passionate coffee lovers. We're drinking it for ONLY the taste/experience. It's a shame coffee roasters and coffee shops tend to not take it seriously. I know when I'm traveling I often want to stop in a coffee shop and get a nice decaf and relax for a bit, but most shops make it pretty clear it's not going to be a good experience by not putting any effort into featuring/caring about the decaf options.

Re: The case against caffeine

#158

Post by shin_lao »

One data point:

A couple of years ago, I went coffee-free for one month, just to see what it would do to me.

Sucked. I like coffee for the sake of coffee. But was happy to see "I could do it".

Could not observe any significant change in my life. Maybe felt a little less "up". I ended the experiment after one month.

I don't drink/do drugs (besides coffee).

Re: The case against caffeine

#160

Post by lukan »

thesz wrote: post #145
vinay_ys wrote: post #59

What we really know for sure is this – sleep is good, anxiety is bad. So, if you aren't getting good sleep, find ways to fix it. And if you are anxious all the time, find ways to fix it. By one tradition that's thousands of years old – Yoga+Pranayama+Meditation (linking physical/mental_movement+breadth) and fasting + eating moderately (eat only if you are hungry and eat enough to quench hunger, and eat 'satvik' food)…

> sleep is good, anxiety is bad. Sleep is not all good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersomnia Anxiety is not all bad: https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/43757 Sattvic food is not good for your health: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37085478/ and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35710164/

But in general sleep is good and anxiety is bad and the studies you linked do not show, whether eating fruits in moderation is bad.
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