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Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

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Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#151

Post by lozenge »

djfdat wrote: post #76
lozenge wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open a developer account with Apple. Get your app Notarized (not the same as App Store review). List your app on an alternative app marketplace, agreeing to their terms of service. Download it from there.

Have you seen the terms for alternative app stores and terms for listing your app on an alternative app store? I don't think there will be many options there either, and if they are, they will not be good due to the policies Apple chose to set forth.

The question was for a home server app- literally for them and their family. I doubt the terms would be that onerous.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#152

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

carlosjobim wrote: post #118
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #13

Does Apple think its shenanigans are going to precipitate a backlash against EU regulation? Because every time I read about a new round of BS my blood boils and my attitude against Apple and other huge anticompetitive corporates just hardens.

> my blood boils Why? You have the option to avoid Apple completely and not have them interfere in your life what so ever, and it's an easy choice. Just don't buy their products. Your blood should boil for things that you can not easily avoid in life. You're wasting your passion on completely meaningless things. In the end, it's just phones and computers.

That's idiotic.

If you don't stand up for principle, you lose everything. My personal loses or gains are petty and irrelevant. It's the very opposite of meaningless.

I don't know how anyone can watch a huge corporation repeatedly thumb their nose at their laws and government and not have their blood boil. You think a huge corporation trying to assert it's above the law is kosher? Just let Apple do whatever it likes? One day you will wake up and you no longer have freedoms you previously enjoyed because they were taken by a massive corporation that asserted its power over democratic institutions.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#153

Post by zmk5 »

Angostura wrote: post #134
cybrox wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, only a few people use that anyways". How many apps in the app store are just webviews? I myself have paid apple to publish webview wrappers around pages because they strictly raise users to expect these, instead of the web apps they have no control over (and cann…

Go on. Explain as you would for a layperson the advantages of a webapp over a regular web page. I’ll go first - notifications. What else.

Cheaper subscriptions if there is no Apple tax.

Not defending web apps or anything, but sometimes the way to a customer is through their wallet.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#154

Post by szasamasa »

gchokov wrote: post #37

Apple is in their right to do whatever they want with their platform. Tim Sweeney will be remembered with the guy who cries against anything Apple does, together with the guy from Ruby on rails.

no, because they are gatekeepers and they operate within countries that have laws and regulations

Apple is not above the law... you cannot host pedofile stuff on YOUR platform because there are laws against it

heck I use a private rail company that travels on the rails built by the other state rail company thanks to EU law

they are better, have self check-in, bought double decker trains and the other train company laughed at them because these trains were designed originally for smaller distances

it is of course much more economical and this state rail company just ordered the same trains

the device and OS of Apple is like the rail tracks, people use them not Apple, and as long as they have that big marketshare they own the rails that developers MUST use

Apple would have just said no, double decker trains are not secure, everybody has to use our secure design on our rails because we protect our customers

monopoly hinders not just competitive prices but innovation too

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#155

Post by madeofpalk »

szasamasa wrote: post #92
withinboredom wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to make a supporting argument to this... I introduced my son to neal.fun this morning and he asked "can you make this easier for me to get to?" and I was like, "sure, there's some way to pin it to the home screen." I know this feature exists and I've even written code to support this feature ... yet I spent nearly 5 minutes looking for the button. Hiding it in the share sheet is downright stupid.

it would be nice to strongly suggest a cross browser idea in the manifest "standard" that is an unstable draft but anyways... that is complicated because it is actually now a browser decision my idea would be long pressing the domain (2 sec) and then standalone mode and "app" icon... like the icon appears and you drop it on your home screen (on desktop other stuff like a prompt do you want a launcher icon, a desktop…

I think an invisible long press is just as (un)intuitive as the share sheet junk drawer.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#156

Post by bromuro »

Ezhik wrote: post #11

Let's say I want to make a little dashboard for a home server that I can view on my iPhone in full screen. If I live in the EU, how am I supposed to add it to my home screen? I can't put it on the App Store even if I wanted to - it's for a local server so it won't pass review. I can't just use a local debug build - those expire after a week or so. What can I even do here?

> Let's say I want to make a little dashboard for a home server that I can view on my iPhone in full screen.

I don’t get this comment - why not just open the webpage in Safari? HTML / JS API do allow full screen.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#157

Post by madeofpalk »

chacham15 wrote: post #105
Someone wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The DMA requires free interoperability, and Apple has imposed a very anti-competitive fee. From comments I read, quite a few people want it to require free interoperability, but I don’t see how it does. I even think it sort-of explicitly allows gatekeepers to keep charging for access. The pre-amble, point 62 starts with “For software application stores, online search engines and online social networking services li…

> it only talks about access to SDKs, specs of device ports, ability to make the same system calls The Apple App store uses SDKs + system calls to install other apps, right? So, if you're allowed to sideload your own app store it should be able to do the same freely. So, the question then becomes about sideloading which I think you're supposed to be able to do freely as well.

No.

Said APIs can be restricted by the platform through entitlements, which are cryptographically locked APIs that must be granted access via Apple.

Sideloading may give you access to non-entitlement private APIs, or be able to use a vulnerability to give you access to those APIs without an entitlement.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#158

Post by carlosjobim »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #152
carlosjobim wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> my blood boils Why? You have the option to avoid Apple completely and not have them interfere in your life what so ever, and it's an easy choice. Just don't buy their products. Your blood should boil for things that you can not easily avoid in life. You're wasting your passion on completely meaningless things. In the end, it's just phones and computers.

That's idiotic. If you don't stand up for principle, you lose everything. My personal loses or gains are petty and irrelevant. It's the very opposite of meaningless. I don't know how anyone can watch a huge corporation repeatedly thumb their nose at their laws and government and not have their blood boil. You think a huge corporation trying to assert it's above the law is kosher? Just let Apple do whatever it likes?…

Good luck with your impotent rage. "That's idiotic!" is not the kind of response that will net any productive conversation.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#159

Post by baxuz »

throwaway11460 wrote: post #67
cybrox wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, only a few people use that anyways". How many apps in the app store are just webviews? I myself have paid apple to publish webview wrappers around pages because they strictly raise users to expect these, instead of the web apps they have no control over (and cann…

How many people use them on Android? Nobody around me... The Add to home prompt is "that thing you always click no or you get ads".

I remember being hyped about pinned web apps ever since they became a thing in Google Chrome and you could pin the to Windows' taskbar.

No matter how much I tried nothing stuck. At one point I tried using the Twitter PWA as I could block ads, but that's about it.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#160

Post by throwaway11460 »

whyoh wrote: post #132
throwaway11460 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people use them on Android? Nobody around me... The Add to home prompt is "that thing you always click no or you get ads".

>you get ads What do you mean? If the browser blocks ads, they'll be blocked in the PWA too, won't they?

Show me an average user with adblocker
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