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PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

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Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#151

Post by DANmode »

CharlesW wrote: post #136
hmottestad wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like Apple is just going to blame the EU. They are officially pulling PWA support on iOS in Europe. So fuck me I guess :( https://9to5mac.com/2024/02/15/ios-17-4-web-apps-european-un...

You seem to be conflating "PWA" with the Safari + Home Screen integration that allowed users to add a web[site|app] (PWA or not) to the iOS Home Screen. Apple had to remove this to comply with the DMA. It's now the responsibility of alternative browser engine vendors to integrate with Shortcuts so that you can add PWAs and other web[sites|apps] to the Home Screen using your browser engine of choice. The additional be…

> Apple had to remove this to comply with the DMA.

This has yet to be made clear to me.

Could you attempt to convince us?

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#152

Post by DANmode »

MilaM wrote: post #35
freedomben wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can quickly and easily make an app for myself and my family that works without having to provision their devices or pay a dev license to Apple. I also use it at work for internal apps. This is exactly why they don't want it. Some will say it's because those are Apple's users and Apple wants to ensure a great user experience and doesn't want unapproved things running on their devices, and others will say it's beca…

They would probably ban browsers altogether from iOS, if they could get away with it. Fortunately we are not there yet.

> doesn't want unapproved things running on their devices

> ban web browsers

and this is the point.

Stop playing games.

Allow users to access and easily use the open web with the internet device they bought from you.

Full stop.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#153

Post by radlad »

chrisandchris wrote: post #143
mzronek wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things is a great example for PWAs, because it does not exist on Android, Linux or Windows. It could be though, if it would be a PWA. It is not and it seems like the developer focused its resources on native software for Apple products.

It could, yes. But the user experience and the amazing level of usability will degrade, and I would move to another product.

And we've come full circle!

> But as a web dev community we need to stand firm and build PWAs regardless. If we treat pwas on iOS like we did Internet explorer (i.e. giving it special attention and hack solutions as opposed to just not developing for it) we will lose the fight.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#154

Post by willsmith72 »

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #97
addicted wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electron apps are getting much better. VS Code is considered the best app in its class by a distant margin and it’s an electron app. The first round of Electron apps were created by people who were simply trying to get some cross platform native version of their apps out. It’s only been recently that companies are now creating electron apps as first class products and now those apps are doing very well.

The popularity of VSCode is mystifying to me: IntelliJ is a much nicer application and VSCode always ends up lagging randomly for me.

i've found the opposite, once the codebase is large enough jetbrains ides get slower and slower. i've been on teams which had to split their monorepo because it was so bad

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#155

Post by SirMaster »

CharlesW wrote: post #136
hmottestad wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like Apple is just going to blame the EU. They are officially pulling PWA support on iOS in Europe. So fuck me I guess :( https://9to5mac.com/2024/02/15/ios-17-4-web-apps-european-un...

You seem to be conflating "PWA" with the Safari + Home Screen integration that allowed users to add a web[site|app] (PWA or not) to the iOS Home Screen. Apple had to remove this to comply with the DMA. It's now the responsibility of alternative browser engine vendors to integrate with Shortcuts so that you can add PWAs and other web[sites|apps] to the Home Screen using your browser engine of choice. The additional be…

What are you talking about?

With iOS 17.4 in the EU, you can no longer make a web app (PWA) that uses a full screen window with no browser ui controls. No longer use local storage for the web app's data, and no longer send push notifications and show badges on the home screen icon for web apps.

Third party browsers can't add this functionality back. How do you expect them to make push notifications work with PWAs?

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#157

Post by sccxy »

palata wrote: post #141
paulddraper wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not that hard to learn how to do native iOS dev Brb gotta go get a whole new computer

Well if you develop an Android PWA without having a single Android device to test it on, then maybe you should not develop an Android app at all. Same applies for iOS.

You can use free Android Studio with free emulators with macOS or Windows (maybe even Linux?)

Cannot say the same about iOS emulators.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#158

Post by DANmode »

palata wrote: post #141
paulddraper wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not that hard to learn how to do native iOS dev Brb gotta go get a whole new computer

Well if you develop an Android PWA without having a single Android device to test it on, then maybe you should not develop an Android app at all. Same applies for iOS.

Android emulators for development are:

1) mostly free

2) ...even somewhat available on iPads!

Is it even necessary?

Safari seems to be the only odd one out that can't even properly implement CSS, out of the top 5 modern browsers.

I'm super glad all of these ridiculous "arguments" are being put on display.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#159

Post by alerighi »

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #93
BandButcher wrote: post #6

Understandable... PWAs are ultimately an alternative path from traditional mobile apps which will take away money from apple/google. But as a web dev community we need to stand firm and build PWAs regardless. If we treat pwas on iOS like we did Internet explorer (i.e. giving it special attention and hack solutions as opposed to just not developing for it) we will lose the fight. I suggest you call out the issues with…

I for one would much rather have native mobile apps that use platform-appropriate controls rather than web apps that use whatever some designer came up with. We’ve already lost this battle on computers because of electron, but iOS is nice precisely because there isn’t an easy way to just ship web technology “apps”.

The fact that an app is in the store doesn't mean that uses platform appropriate controls. In fact a lot of applications nowadays are just web app packaged with tools like Ionic, or cross platform applications built with React Native or Flutter that doesn't use "platform-appropriate controls".

If most applications are embedding a web browser, or at least part of a web browser (in case of RN), why not just have applications that... run in a browser? No need to install them, no need to update them, I can just open an URL and they work.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#160

Post by SirMaster »

mulmen wrote: post #123

I understand the benefits of PWAs for developers. Can someone explain to me the benefits for users ? From a UX perspective how is a PWA superior to a native app?

The benefit is my app exists.

I'm not buying a mac or paying for an apple developer license, sorry.

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