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I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

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Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#151

Post by toolslive »

spondylosaurus wrote: post #80
IshKebab wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust me it's distain for the tool. Jira is bad on three fronts: 1. It's too configurable. It's like the company wiki. People come in, set up some random projects, processes, fields, statuses, etc. and then move on. There's rarely someone making it all consistent and sensible. This results in task statuses that can be TODO, BACKLOG, PENDING, WAITING, TO DO, etc. etc. etc. You also end up with waaaay too many fields f…

Re. your third point, Confluence is also slow as shit. Using both together is like returning to the age of dial-up.

Not only that. Once you've battled the sucky editor and have the document in confluence, you will realize that if you export it to pdf (or word) it will look like shit. So what's the point?

"Confluence is where information goes to die"

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#152

Post by NikolaNovak »

wkat4242 wrote: post #104
ta1243 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in a mid-to-large org. The more agile part use tools like jira and slack. The older part (established in the 1920s) use Remedy and Teams. Jira is brilliant. It is team-led. Different teams have different approaches, some love all the features like components, versions, issue types, assignee, kanban boards, scrumms, reports etc etc. Others like my team use it with subject/description/comments. You make the tool…

I don't want to use any tool or methodology.. I just want to do my work.

I'm assuming that's a funny/sarcastic comment, but the scary part is... there's a chance it might be serious! :-O

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#153

Post by n4r9 »

Supermancho wrote: post #92
kstrauser wrote: post #60

I wrote “Jira Is a Code Smell”: https://honeypot.net/post/jira-is-a-code-smell/ Short version: Jira, in a vacuum, is neither great nor awful. It just is. But it has a complication that makes managers I want to work for dislike it, while strongly appealing to managers I don’t want to work for. That’s not universally true, I’m sure. However, it’s been my experience.

My primary problem with JIRA, is that there is very little support for dependency trees. I have tickets X and Y linked to A,B,C,D and nothing but an ad-hoc way of determining how they are related. A visualization and tool to assign places in a tree, are part of what keeps JIRA from being excellent...ok that AND the horrid UX.

If Jira could take a dependency tree and estimates against each item and build out a timeline and display it like a Gant chart, that would be incredible. Even better, factor in employee working hours per week and bank holidays. Even better, dynamically update the timelines based on estimate updates, delays in external dependencies, or sick days.

But actually my biggest grievance is the terrible search function. You can search for the literal title of an issue and it won't come up in the results.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#154

Post by TJSomething »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #146
ta1243 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in a mid-to-large org. The more agile part use tools like jira and slack. The older part (established in the 1920s) use Remedy and Teams. Jira is brilliant. It is team-led. Different teams have different approaches, some love all the features like components, versions, issue types, assignee, kanban boards, scrumms, reports etc etc. Others like my team use it with subject/description/comments. You make the tool…

Interesting; I think this is a demonstration of how much what seems like a "Tool" is actually "organization", because my current experience is completely opposite: * In MS teams, I can create conversations, group chats, organic meetings, and add people (and include history) as I want and desire. I prefer it for quick discussions with my colleagues and to get a rapid problem solving or critical incident conversation w…

> Basically, to get anything done you have to create channels, which is great for "top down, I know ahead of time what I need / want to enforce" structure, but awful for "this started as a one-on-one and is now a massive discussion with 17 people"

In Slack, you can turn a group DM into a private channel and keep the history.

https://slack.com/help/articles/217555437-Convert-a-group-di...

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#156

Post by FireBeyond »

WesleyJohnson wrote: post #132
kagevf wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wondered the same thing about Microsoft Teams. Is Teams as horrible as people say, or do they just hate it because it's what they happen to use for video meetings at work? Conversely, I don't hear much hate for zoom.

We switched from Slack to Teams several years ago because we were all-in on Office 365 products. Everyone hated the change, but with stuck with it. It was slow, crashed a lot, search was abysmal and you'd have to be a masochist to use it willingly.... But they pushed out a new version recently. Now you've got Teams Classic and Teams NEW (work or school)... at least on the Mac. It's sooo much better. Way more stable.…

> If we want to discuss a project, we just spin up a new chat with relevant parties

This part I struggle with, and maybe we're doing it wrong, but to me as a PM, this way is painful.

Search helps. But then I have to remember, "Was discussion about X in the chat with people A + B + C, or was it in A + B + D's chat, or B + D's chat, or..."

We also have significant challenges with knowledge silos (not intentional, and more about a cadre of new devs being brought on) that (not the only solution) I feel that pushing conversations to specific teams when appropriate might help, improving visibility.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#157

Post by lmm »

ta1243 wrote: post #59
bschne wrote: post #8

I always wonder how much of this sort of thing is disdain for the specific tool vs. disdain for what working in a mid-to-large org. is like and the overhead it usually brings with it.

I work in a mid-to-large org. The more agile part use tools like jira and slack. The older part (established in the 1920s) use Remedy and Teams. Jira is brilliant. It is team-led. Different teams have different approaches, some love all the features like components, versions, issue types, assignee, kanban boards, scrumms, reports etc etc. Others like my team use it with subject/description/comments. You make the tool…

> Jira is brilliant. It is team-led. Different teams have different approaches, some love all the features like components, versions, issue types, assignee, kanban boards, scrumms, reports etc etc. Others like my team use it with subject/description/comments. You make the tool fit what the team needs.

> Same with slack, you can create and destroy channels around your team -- anyone can create any channel at any point it makes sense -- problem at 3AM, spin up a channel to discuss it, job done. You can integrate and add plugins nice and easy.

> Remedy and Teams are led top down. They're designed to be organised, not organic. They're not built for the teams doing the work, but for the people wanting reporting. It's more about monthly KPIs than actually improving performance.

I'd say it's the other way round. Everywhere I've seen Jira, the person who can change the tool settings (e.g. make mandatory fields optional, add a transition to allow you to move a card to the column it should be in (because Jira is deny by default, you can only move things in ways that are specifically allowed) is a very distant part of the org chart from the team doing day to day work on it. "not built for the teams doing the work, but for the people wanting reporting. It's more about monthly KPIs than actually improving performance" is exactly how I'd describe Jira, given how I've seen it used (across a great many organisations, large and small - indeed I'd say switching to Jira is the most reliable indicator that a previously fun company has grown too big and it's time to leave).

Some stuff is probably just typical managerial bullshit. But the fact that Jira defaults to working as a slow, drag-and-drop interface with no undo is absolutely an unforced error.

> Never has an anti-trust move been so obvious or damaging.

Atlassian buying Trello and gradually ruining it is worse than MS giving away crappy products for free.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#158

Post by akudha »

Most people shit on Jira, I guess it deserves it. But what is the alternative? I tried a bunch of tools couple of years ago. They were all as bad as Jira or worse.

I dunno if the situation has changed since then, but I would bet it hasn’t changed much

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#159

Post by quesera »

stickfigure wrote: post #55
Octoth0rpe wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I liked pivotal tracker ( https://www.pivotaltracker.com ) quite a bit when I used it at my last job, but that was 7ish years ago. Presumably it hasn't gotten worse. At the time I strongly suspected that it wouldn't scale past 30ish devs. That's more than enough for many people though, and that's assuming no improvements. I particularly liked that there are very nice cli tools for it: https://www.pivotaltracker.com/i…

Can confirm that Pivotal Tracker has gotten better since then, not worse. But it's strongly opinionated and if you aren't using something very much like the Pivotal process, it might not work for you. Personally I love it. FYI a dozen people would be a huge team at Pivotal. 30 folks working in a single backlog is unheard of. But I hear Pivotal became a different place after Rob left, so I don't know what it's like no…

Interesting -- I've been using Pivotal Tracker continuously for at least seven years, and I don't perceive much change in that period. I think this is a good thing!

For me, the most impressive thing is that Tracker manages to be simple enough but not simplistic.

I've used a lot of tracker products, and I don't consider Pivotal Tracker to be particularly opinionated. That might just mean it works the way I prefer of course! But we do not do dogmatic methodologies, and Tracker is flexible enough to add zero friction to our process.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#160

Post by harry8 »

The people who make the purchase decision to pay Atlassian are a tiny fraction of those using the tool. The rest have no say in the choice that results in sales dollars. Atlassian can treat this majority with contempt because their only option is to bitch &/or quit which is a very limited amount of power. So Atlassian does treat the overwhelming majority of its users with total contempt and this is financially rational.

Right up until Atlassian and Jira become synonyms for everything bad amongst the overwhelming majority of people who have encountered it. About when "Jira-free workplace" goes on job ads. Which has got to be a pretty good strategy by now. Anyone seen it yet?

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