Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps • Hacker News Board

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#151

Post by callalex » Fri, Feb 09, 2024, 7:36 PM UTC

shadowpho wrote: post #123

nostrademons wrote: post #92

These states really need to get their electric rates down if they want to accelerate adoption of electrification technologies. We were planning to fully electrify our house + transportation in the next few years. PG&E rate hikes and net metering policies put the damper on that. It's now more expensive to fuel a vehicle with electricity than gas, so I'm charging my PHEV at work and using gas for the rest. We have sola…

> It's now more expensive to fuel a vehicle with electricity than gas How is that possible? Even at 20c/kWh it's still a good 4x cost difference I though

PG&E charges more like $.50 and it will soon be $.60-&.70. The regulator is corrupted and the infrastructure is failing because PG&E spent money that was supposed to be for infrastructure maintenance on share buyback programs. As a result the infrastructure failed and killed a ton of people, so now the utility is in even more debt because of the restitution owed.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#152

Post by Dowwie » Fri, Feb 09, 2024, 7:36 PM UTC

readingnews wrote: post #86

I just replaced a furnace... everyone I called for a quote would not touch a heat pump with a 20foot pole, or they wanted prices that were 2X what a separate furnace and AC would cost to install. It was very strange. This is the second home where I had this experience.. basically, they really did not want to install it. I ended up going with gas as no local person would install/warranty a heat pump, or, it was priced…

where are you located? I was quoted 14k to replace a gas furnace for a single family in NJ

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#153

Post by mperham » Fri, Feb 09, 2024, 7:36 PM UTC

Detrytus wrote: post #121

herpdyderp wrote: post #5

The states listed are: - California - Colorado - Maine - Maryland - Massachusetts - New Jersey - New York - Oregon - Rhode Island

Why would anyone need a heat pump in California, given the climate there? I can understand north-eastern states, but not this. Is it a case of mindlessly jumping on "progressive" bandwagon? EDIT: I actually spent one winter in San Diego, and apartments there don't even have any heating installed (except occasional fireplace in the living room). I know that more to the north it might get worse, but by how much?

Because even California dips below 68F and so your house gets cold.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#154

Post by blackguardx » Fri, Feb 09, 2024, 7:37 PM UTC

Detrytus wrote: post #121

herpdyderp wrote: post #5

The states listed are: - California - Colorado - Maine - Maryland - Massachusetts - New Jersey - New York - Oregon - Rhode Island

Why would anyone need a heat pump in California, given the climate there? I can understand north-eastern states, but not this. Is it a case of mindlessly jumping on "progressive" bandwagon? EDIT: I actually spent one winter in San Diego, and apartments there don't even have any heating installed (except occasional fireplace in the living room). I know that more to the north it might get worse, but by how much?

Heat pumps make lots of sense in California. It gets hot enough to want air conditioning and still gets cold enough to need heat in much of California. California has many types of climates. Even in the desert areas like near Joshua Tree, you will still need heat in the winter. It snows there.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#155

Post by jvanderbot » Fri, Feb 09, 2024, 7:37 PM UTC

czbond wrote: post #133

wtallis wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AC is just a heat pump that doesn't give you the option of running it backwards. There can be good and bad implementations of either.

New to heat pumps. Can I replace sub-components of an existing AC system with a heat pump for benefits of both?

You have just constructed a heat pump.

Heat pumps have the benefits of both.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#156

Post by aidenn0 » Fri, Feb 09, 2024, 7:37 PM UTC

Anyone know what sort of electrical requirements there are for these? We currently have a gas furnace and gas range. My electrical panel is full (we used up the last of it installing 220V for the clothes dryer), and the furnace is on the opposite side of the house from the electric panel, under a different roofline.

I'm going to at some point get an electrician in to look at things and see what the options are, but my house just isn't wired for it currently.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#157

Post by ajross » Fri, Feb 09, 2024, 7:37 PM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #95

readingnews wrote: post #86

I just replaced a furnace... everyone I called for a quote would not touch a heat pump with a 20foot pole, or they wanted prices that were 2X what a separate furnace and AC would cost to install. It was very strange. This is the second home where I had this experience.. basically, they really did not want to install it. I ended up going with gas as no local person would install/warranty a heat pump, or, it was priced…

Your experience is extremely common. Residential HVAC contractors tend to be extremely conservative, and don't adopt new technologies quickly, or even attempt to understand them. I had some flexibility in time in replacing my 50 year old gas furnace, so I was able to call about 8 contractors before I finally found one who was comfortable with the tech and wanted to do it.

Yeah, it's not an innovative sector, though a lot of the blame belongs with the hardware manufacturers and not the installers. FWIW, the quotes I got for installation weren't that awful. But getting it hooked up to the Nest thermostat turned out to be a 2-day process and require a subcontractor to show up.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#158

Post by briffle » Fri, Feb 09, 2024, 7:38 PM UTC

czbond wrote: post #133

wtallis wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AC is just a heat pump that doesn't give you the option of running it backwards. There can be good and bad implementations of either.

New to heat pumps. Can I replace sub-components of an existing AC system with a heat pump for benefits of both?

I'd be very interested as well. My gas furnace is only a few years old, but my AC system is probably 10 years old. If I could replace just that with a heat pump, and leave my gas furnace in place as a backup, that would be ideal.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#159

Post by widdakay » Fri, Feb 09, 2024, 7:38 PM UTC

czbond wrote: post #133

wtallis wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AC is just a heat pump that doesn't give you the option of running it backwards. There can be good and bad implementations of either.

New to heat pumps. Can I replace sub-components of an existing AC system with a heat pump for benefits of both?

I'm surprised this isn't more common. The only difference between a heat pump and standard air conditioner is a reversing valve. These are usually $50-$100, and just require one more wire to the thermostat. In colder weather, defrost and fancier controllers are needed, but for mild climates the reversing valve is really all that is needed.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#160

Post by aidenn0 » Fri, Feb 09, 2024, 7:38 PM UTC

floatrock wrote: post #146

shadowpho wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's now more expensive to fuel a vehicle with electricity than gas How is that possible? Even at 20c/kWh it's still a good 4x cost difference I though

Napkin math: My crossover EV gets 2.5-3.5 mi/kWh. Call it 3. / $0.2/kWh = 15 mi/$ Avg fuel economy in US ~ 25mpg. At $3.50/gal that's 7 mi/$ So at 20c/kWh, your dollar goes roughly twice as far on electric. California has been seeing brutal rates, though -- 40c/kWh not uncommon. Californians can play games with Time-of-Use rates (charge at night), get onto EV-specific rates, be on a CCA which tend to not have the try…

Where in California can you get gas for $3.50/gal?