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Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

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Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#151

Post by wongarsu »

hintymad wrote: post #141

I was wondering how the manufacturers address the potential culture conflicts. Obama's documentary American Factory revealed two notable contentions. One is that American workers think that the management is too tough on them while the management think that the workers are too unreasonable. The other is that Chinese workers are 30% (or 2X?) more efficient than American workers. I have no judgement on the first conten…

> American labors were known to be the best in the world many years ago

I'm pretty sure every country says that about themselves. It's more a statement of national pride than of fact.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#152

Post by mikeyouse »

mjamesaustin wrote: post #108
itsoktocry wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What about Toyota's plans makes you think they will ever catch up to everyone else with EVs? Their history of engineering and execution. What makes you think think they can't? EV proponents like to argue that the simplicity is what makes EVs so great, but at the same time making arguments like "no one can catch up". Believe it or not, it's not a certainty that EVs are going to be the solution, rather than just an i…

What makes me think they can't catch up is watching them spend dramatically less than their competition on the needed infrastructure when they are already very far behind. To catch up from behind, you need to do more than your competition.

This is an article about a single factory - Toyota spends upwards of $30 billion a year in CapEx -- Tesla spends under $10 billion per year.

Toyota's battery complex in North Carolina is a greater spend than the entire annual budget from Tesla and will have about the same output as Tesla's "gigafactory". The $1.3 billion in Kentucky is in addition to that.. it's a mistake to think they're not investing heavily.

https://www.just-auto.com/news/toyota-to-double-investment-i...

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#153

Post by achates »

hintymad wrote: post #141

I was wondering how the manufacturers address the potential culture conflicts. Obama's documentary American Factory revealed two notable contentions. One is that American workers think that the management is too tough on them while the management think that the workers are too unreasonable. The other is that Chinese workers are 30% (or 2X?) more efficient than American workers. I have no judgement on the first conten…

I doubt that will be a problem here. Their Kentucky plant is huge, it's been around for decades and it makes lots of high quality cars including the Camry. Toyota goes to a lot of effort to teach the workers their production system and culture.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#154

Post by itomato »

hintymad wrote: post #141

I was wondering how the manufacturers address the potential culture conflicts. Obama's documentary American Factory revealed two notable contentions. One is that American workers think that the management is too tough on them while the management think that the workers are too unreasonable. The other is that Chinese workers are 30% (or 2X?) more efficient than American workers. I have no judgement on the first conten…

Forcing people to eat off the Dollar menu has consequences

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#155

Post by wongarsu »

ericmay wrote: post #150
hintymad wrote: post #141

I was wondering how the manufacturers address the potential culture conflicts. Obama's documentary American Factory revealed two notable contentions. One is that American workers think that the management is too tough on them while the management think that the workers are too unreasonable. The other is that Chinese workers are 30% (or 2X?) more efficient than American workers. I have no judgement on the first conten…

I don't really follow what you're trying to say with your last sentence and I'd be skeptical of a claim that Chinese workers are 30% more efficient, but Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and others have maintained US manufacturing facilities for decades and seem to be doing just fine with any potential culture conflicts. The 30% number you cite could be true but perhaps in order for Chinese (or any other country) manufacturing…

Toyota has manufacturing facilities in at least 16 countries, so they probably have this figured out. US import duties make it especially lucrative for manufacturers to have US facilities, which lines up with Toyota having 10 other facilities in the US, plus some in Canada and Mexico.

Still, in my eyes that only makes it more intriguing how they bridge the cultural differences, since whatever they are doing seems to be working.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#156

Post by bryanlarsen »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #143
bryanlarsen wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to cherry-pick random anecdotes I'll counter with multi-year waitlists for Hyundai EV9 despite being expensive and ineligible for the $7500 rebate.

>Hyundai EV9 despite not being expensive It starts at €70k. In what world is this not expensive? Maybe in Bay Area Fang wages.

Sorry, typo. It being very expensive makes the wait-lists surprising. If it wasn't expensive wait-lists wouldn't be surprising.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#157

Post by pie420 »

tenpies wrote: post #145
itsoktocry wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What about Toyota's plans makes you think they will ever catch up to everyone else with EVs? Their history of engineering and execution. What makes you think think they can't? EV proponents like to argue that the simplicity is what makes EVs so great, but at the same time making arguments like "no one can catch up". Believe it or not, it's not a certainty that EVs are going to be the solution, rather than just an i…

Correct. Toyota's bet is simple: what makes rational economic, environmental, and good-policy sense for most locales is not an EV. It's a hybrid. And it's a bet that's working well so far: https://fortune.com/asia/2023/12/28/toyota-hybrid-cars-sales...

yet they refuse to build hybrids in large numbers. RAV4 primes and Prius primes are insanely difficult to get at or near MSRP. Toyota is saying that Hybrids make the most sense, but still use hybrid as an upsell for a higher trim, and thus only makes a fraction of their cars as hybrids. If >50% of their vehicles were hybrids, i'd be ecstatic and would agree with them, but currently it's just whataboutism and misdirection

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#158

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #67
antisthenes wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota has probably shipped more battery capacity in hybrid cars than most EV manufacturers to date. They don't need to catch up to anything.

5 million prius * 14 kWhr 5 million tesla * 50 kWhr This is probably true, hybrids may win in the US market in the short term until they are outlawed?

They'll never be outlawed. There are too many use cases for 300+ mile trips in remote areas where recharging isn't possible or less remote areas where it isn't practical.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#159

Post by ActorNightly »

brandonagr2 wrote: post #27
itsoktocry wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For context: Tesla is guiding for $10+B a year capex spending for the next 3 years. I know people around these parts think that Tesla has uncovered some magical factory building ability, but can you even consider the fact that maybe Toyota knows what they are doing? > Toyota is still under-investing in EV. $1.3B is nothing. This is one factory.

What about Toyota's plans makes you think they will ever catch up to everyone else with EVs?

I could walk in and buy Model Y any time I want. Not so with Rav 4 Prime.

Plugin hybrids are the future.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#160

Post by topspin »

charles_f wrote: post #77
costanzaDynasty wrote: post #40

Globalization is rolling back. It's about to be boom times in America as long as the politicians from all parties can actually move from one troth to another and actually pass bills.

To be fair Toyota has had local factories for the longest time as part of their JIT manufacturing philosophy.

These local factories exist due to automotive manufacturing "domestic content" laws, as opposed to whatever JIT manufacturing philosophy Toyota might have. Pushed by the UAW and signed by Reagan in the 1980's, the US has many foreign car factories in the US as a direct result.
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