Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then you have not understood the motivation of the project.
There is no motivation on linked page.
They don't have to justify themselves too.
The Ladybird browser project
151–160 of 293 posts
Re: The Ladybird browser project
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is not any easier, because we still have a monopoly running the show, only it's not called Microsoft anymore. If anyone threatens Google position, they can literally throw money at the problem, invent some overcomplicated standard, implement it in Blink, and have the competition chase them. It doesn't need to go through W3C either, if it works in Chrome, all web developers will adopt it and any smaller engine will…
This is where Apple'grip on the iOS browser engine choice paradoxically comes in clutch. It is conceptually despicable, especially for devs, but it prevents Google from completely running the show. Now the European Union is coming after Apple without trying to rein in Google's influence... This seems short-sighted.
> European Union is coming after apple.... seems short sighted
I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the goals of the EU in this matter. The objective is not to keep both companies on even keel, but it is merely about enforcing existing anti-monopoly laws. If this results in Google gaining a de-facto browser monopoly then those same laws can be used to break up that monopoly when we get to it.
What would be the alternative in your opinion? Allow Apple to break the monopoly laws in hope that they will be able to rein in the growth of the Google browser? What good is a law if it will not be enforced?
Re: The Ladybird browser project
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is not any easier, because we still have a monopoly running the show, only it's not called Microsoft anymore. If anyone threatens Google position, they can literally throw money at the problem, invent some overcomplicated standard, implement it in Blink, and have the competition chase them. It doesn't need to go through W3C either, if it works in Chrome, all web developers will adopt it and any smaller engine will…
> if it works in Chrome, all web developers will adopt it This is why we, tech nerds who understand the problem, must resist monopolies: object to using such APIs. Chrome wouldn't be in quite this position if, instead of embracing the monopolist, more techies had warned their non-techy friends and family away from it, like they did with IE.
We warned people that the government was snooping on everything you transmitted or received.
They didn't listen or care.
Re: The Ladybird browser project
#154This is a really cool project, but: "Where are the ISO images? There are no ISO images. This project does not cater to non-technical users." This comes off as really abrasive. Wanting an ISO image to quickly test this out is not an indicator of someones technical ability. I'm sorry I don't want to boot up a linux vm, install a lot of development packages and then build my own boot image just to try this out.
Counterpoint, it would be another release / packaging they would have to build and maintain, unless they find a volunteer that can do it without detracting from their core business, it's not worth the investment (to them). Anyone can set up a pipeline to distribute ISO images though, it's open source.
Sure, if that's the reason, I completely understand. However that's not the reason they stated in their FAQ. It really comes off as gatekeeping
Re: The Ladybird browser project
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is not any easier, because we still have a monopoly running the show, only it's not called Microsoft anymore. If anyone threatens Google position, they can literally throw money at the problem, invent some overcomplicated standard, implement it in Blink, and have the competition chase them. It doesn't need to go through W3C either, if it works in Chrome, all web developers will adopt it and any smaller engine will…
Google's control of the internet is exaggerated. Amazon is not dependent on any web browser to reach clients, they can just launch their own app and be done. And yes, they can do it all platforms. How is Instagram dependent on whatever Google decides? How is Facebook, TikTok and Snapchat? How are streaming platforms dependent on Chrome? Big businesses with a ton of users easily launch their own apps to sidestep Chrom…
I can guarantee that if a bank website stops working in Chrome they will be instantly working around the clock to fix the website!
Re: The Ladybird browser project
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
When you open sites on other "new" browser engines you typically get a really butchered visual result, with layouts completely broken, elements missing, wrong colors, etc. For example, Servo didn't support floats until recently, and IIRC even simple sites like Hacker News look "wrong". Ladybird's approach has been to start with a somewhat naive implementation of features, then choose popular websites and apps and jus…
I can't relate / do not recognise these claims of incorrect rendering; is there a resource out there that shows images of how it's supposed to be vs what it looks like? I thought this was a problem of the past, IE compatibility with web standards kind of thing.
Which browser are you talking about that renders everything correctly? Are you using a Servo-based browser? Is there even a Servo-based browser that someone can easily download and use?
Servo themselves say they only pass 55.8% of tests[1]. This thread[2] says Servo doesn't support SVG[2] as of Nov 2022.
[2] https://old.reddit.com/r/browsers/comments/z2d7pr/servo_base...
Re: The Ladybird browser project
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is where Apple'grip on the iOS browser engine choice paradoxically comes in clutch. It is conceptually despicable, especially for devs, but it prevents Google from completely running the show. Now the European Union is coming after Apple without trying to rein in Google's influence... This seems short-sighted.
>Now the European Union is coming after Apple without trying to rein in Google's influence... This seems short-sighted. At the very least, if the EU really wants to limit the tech giants' grip on the web, it needs to fund independent open source web engine development handsomely; their pockets are more than deep enough and projects like ladybird and servo can use the extra resources.
> if the EU really wants to limit the tech giants' grip on the web
You're misunderstanding the goals of the EU. The EU only cares about limiting their grip as a result of their main goal. The main goal of the EU is to protect the rights of their citizens, which they do by enforcing existing anti-monopoly laws.
The EU has in principle no problem with a company gaining giant market share by providing a successful service or product. There would be no problem if Google or Apple would gain 99% market share by everybody voluntarily choosing their product. But it is a problem if they then use that marketshare to make it harder for competitors to compete.
I.e.: you're wrong to say that they're trying to minimise the 'grip' they have. They are merely trying to prevent companies abusing that grip.
That being said; I'm pretty sure that the EU does actually fund a lot of open source development
Re: The Ladybird browser project
#158I have hopes it will become a daily usable browser. A new Web engine is great. I hope Servo succeeds at this too. I would consider contributing but development is coordinated on Discord and I avoid proprietary software… [1]. It's a shame. Can't blame them though, they are doing it for fun. [1] https://drewdevault.com/2022/03/29/free-software-free-infras...
I think HN is proprietary.
Re: The Ladybird browser project
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, he was.
He was probably their top guy too. Sort of like how Lucifer was the top angel in Heaven before his drug problems brought about his fall from Apple and since then he's been a true light bringer working tirelessly to give us awesome software as he recovers from addition.
> as he recovers from addition.
Divide and conquer for the win!
Re: The Ladybird browser project
#160I have hopes it will become a daily usable browser. A new Web engine is great. I hope Servo succeeds at this too. I would consider contributing but development is coordinated on Discord and I avoid proprietary software… [1]. It's a shame. Can't blame them though, they are doing it for fun. [1] https://drewdevault.com/2022/03/29/free-software-free-infras...
Wow - that article was a tough read. I like a LOT of what Drew has to say, but this seems over the top. He claims that authors promoting their open source software on channels like Twitter, Hacker news, LinkedIn or even Github is "selfish and unethical outright": > Many projects choose to prioritize access to the established audience that large commercial platforms provide, in order to maximize their odds of becoming…
Podcasts are actually distributed via rss. Proprietary platforms pick them up but they're actually one of the few forms of media that the public widely consumes via open standards.