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Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

nytimes.com

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Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#151

Post by resolutebat »

sinuhe69 wrote: post #127

Seriously, why people in tech are opposed to unions? In Europe, unions and Betriebsrat (works committee) are the norm. Why not in the US?

In the US, when you say "labor union", people think of a factory worker standing in a picket line outside some dinosaur car assembly plant in Flint, Michigan that's about to close anyway.

The media has very successfully demonized unions, and many skilled workers believe the company line that unions drive down average wages, make it impossible to fire useless people, charge heavy membership fees, etc.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#152

Post by pretext-1 »

sokoloff wrote: post #78
flurdy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pissed me off when I realised you could use not Nest cameras nor doorbell if you have a Google Workspace account. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Cannot use them with a Google workspace account? Or cannot use them if you merely have a workspace account? The former seems like it might be reasonable (and I wouldn't want to lock a piece of home infrastructure to a workspace account anyway); the latter seems utterly insane.

Google marketed Google Workspace (called “Google Apps” at the time) as a solution for individuals and families with custom domain. People still have these accounts and there is no way to migrate (e.g. purchases on Google Play, reviews on Google Maps, notes in Google Keep, etc.).

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#153

Post by akoboldfrying »

vintermann wrote: post #135
akoboldfrying wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know about burnout, the dogfooding is very real though. OTOH, they're pretty smart.

I wonder if the well-documented nihism of Google, coupled with how all the marvellous internal Google tools seem to work a lot less well without their product teams running them, is secretly an employee retention strategy.

Feels like a stretch to me, I have to say. The only tool that comes to mind is Blaze/Bazel, which I haven't tried outside of Google, but the friction people experience is likely down to the fact that, outside of Google, you have to deal with a world that's more complicated than a single giant monorepo.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#154

Post by al_borland »

kqr wrote: post #13
faeriechangling wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel is only around today because the leadership was decisive enough to lay off most of the company early in its history, and they then proceeded to release a whack of innovative microprocessor products after these massive layoffs.

I don't know whether your comment is true, but the way to do layoffs while keeping innovation as high as possible is to do one round that is big enough that you can and do give guarantees to the employees that are left behind that they have jobs for life. Multiple rounds of layoffs is what really takes your innovation to zero.

I’ve been through dozens of rounds of layoffs. That part I almost got used to. Staying innovative, and being seen as innovative by my boss, was the way to ensure I wasn’t on that list.

What killed it for me was when new management came in, refused to talk to anyone internal, brought in outside hires to be the innovators and change agents, and then shut down any of the legacy employees who tried to speak or bring ideas to the table. A lot of really talented people have left, and maybe that was the goal, as it avoids having to pay severance.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#155

Post by AnthonyMouse »

kypro wrote: post #136
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IT salaries are high mostly because the people who can do the job well can also do other jobs well, so if salaries go down then people change careers. For example, most people who can do IT could also become an electrician, for which the demand is currently high. > Also ChatGPT and other AIs increasing developers, artists, etc. productivity - so fewer people can do as much work. This is the sort of thing that increas…

> IT salaries are high mostly because the people who can do the job well can also do other jobs well True to some extent, but IT salaries are high in my opinion because until recently there was a very limited tech talent pool but huge demand for IT talent. I mean IT was only really seen as a good career around 15-20 years ago. We just got lucky. We had the right skills at the right time. We rode the wave of big tech…

> I mean IT was only really seen as a good career around 15-20 years ago.

It has been seen as a good career ever since it started employing a significant number of people.

> With technology maturing from here on the industry will likely stagnate some

That's the thing that happened 15-20 years ago.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#156

Post by danpalmer »

code51 wrote: post #150
sinuhe69 wrote: post #127

Seriously, why people in tech are opposed to unions? In Europe, unions and Betriebsrat (works committee) are the norm. Why not in the US?

Most probably because they think unions would standardize salaries and eliminate outlier FAANG compensation packages. Everybody thinks they are special and would get that outlier compensation after all. An idea which is not so battle-tested as we see.

Yeah the union I'm a part of said this was the major thing that people don't like at tech companies, and they explicitly say that their approach is not the same with other industries, and that they are fully on board with things like performance based compensation and keeping up with market rates.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#157

Post by johannes1234321 »

sinuhe69 wrote: post #127

Seriously, why people in tech are opposed to unions? In Europe, unions and Betriebsrat (works committee) are the norm. Why not in the US?

I don't think they are that common in tech in Europe/Germany as well.

SWEs are used to being in a good negotiation position and not in need for collective bargain.

My employer has a works council, but no union representation. That council is mostly occupied with dealing with compensation (provisions, product assignments, ...) of sales people, who make the largest group, thus most votes. SWE needs aren't seen.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#158

Post by trashtester »

sinuhe69 wrote: post #127

Seriously, why people in tech are opposed to unions? In Europe, unions and Betriebsrat (works committee) are the norm. Why not in the US?

One reason is that in times of high growth, unions tend to be a limiting factor to innovation, growth and worker compensation, especially for top performers.

Another is that during layoffs, unions may force the company to lay off people based on seniority instead of competency.

If you compare salaries for developers between Germany and the US, I think this point becomes blatantly clear.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#159

Post by whiplash451 »

Galanwe wrote: post #96
jillesvangurp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better put, the relationship you have with your employer is a business relation ship. It's not personal. They are not your friends, nor your enemies. It's simply a convenient arrangement between the two of you for as long as that lasts. And it might become convenient for either side to change that arrangement at any point. The more you earn, the higher the risk that at some point somebody decides that they want to sp…

You should add more nuance I think. While this is a respectable way to see employer / employee relationships, it does not apply to every company / employee out there. In particular, I think this is very true for BigCo, where most people are seen as fungible cogs. The smaller the company, the better.

> The smaller the company, the better.

I disagree. There is a lot of variance in small companies. There is a lot of variance in large companies as well (the famous "it will really depend on which team you belong to").

I really think there is little correlation between company size and your experience at such company. The predictive variables (if they ever exist) are elsewhere.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#160

Post by herval »

freetinker wrote: post #113
wayfinder wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is good at making algorithms and tech but product development and long term vision have never been its strong points.

Institutionally, Google has the attention span of a Goldfish. Apple will continue to entrench their position as a leader in edge computing. Apple deserve their success; I hope they don’t get complacent once the Pixel division implodes.

Was Pixel ever a big player in the Android market? I get the feeling Xiaomi and Samsung are the actual competitors Apple cares about
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