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YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

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Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#151

Post by jhbadger »

mafuy wrote: post #91
well_actulily wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lessig isn't saying we should keep children away from morals. He's criticizing how Disney adapted the Brothers Grimm's stories, which often preached heavy-handed and regressive moral lessons in a moralizing manner.

No, he's referring to the Grimm stories. They are indeed violent. They simply are a product of their time. The Disney version is easier to digest. All of this should not detract from his main point, tho.

They were actually a product of a time earlier than the Grimms. They were acting as proto-anthropologists, collecting oral tales from illiterate peasants because they feared that these were about to be lost with modernization. This is different from later people like Hans Christian Andersen, who really did create new fairy tales.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#152

Post by trinsic2 »

jasode wrote: post #40
safety1st wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Oops, just a bug" only goes so far. What's interesting about content ID is that only a select group of large copyright holders have access to protecting their works through it, and we have a growing number of cases where it makes "decisions" that are not in line with copyright law. So is it a copyright enforcement system or is it really some kind of cartel mechanism which is replacing copyright law? Inquiring minds…

>So is it a copyright enforcement system or is it really some kind of cartel mechanism which is replacing copyright law? It's neither of those. Content ID is an automated detection system that Google/Youtube voluntarily put in place to help make peace with big copyright holders like Viacom to stop the lawsuits: https://archive.is/Awz5k Basically Youtube created a win-win deal: when our content scanner finds a pirated…

> win-win deal

Yeah I'm sure it's been a win for all of us (not)

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#153

Post by mkl »

jamespo wrote: post #118
willcipriano wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey come on they have original ideas, talking African animals, talking cars, talking fish, talking toys. Without intellectual property protection they wouldn't of made all these super original ideas.

I love watching 2 hour animated films with no dialogue personally

Any recommendations?

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#154

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

kitsune_ wrote: post #35

From a moral philosophy perspective, corporations like Google display a concerning ethical imbalance when they fail to proactively uphold the common good in scenarios where there's no direct financial benefit. A question to HN, since there are a ton of Googlers on here, what are the justifications of those who work within such organizations, particularly when there are other companies that seem to manage a better bal…

Bluntly, no one gives a flying fig about moral philosophy or upholding what internet denizens think is "proactively upholding the common good" for much, much less money than what Google pays, even when said denizens happen to be right. Almost no one walks away from Omelas.

Once you reach FAANG levels of compensation, lulling oneself into complacency by internalizing marketing like "don't be evil" or "our products are loved by billions of customers" becomes even easier.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#155

Post by shkkmo »

wolframhempel wrote: post #147
michaelt wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube has to follow the DMCA, yes. And much of the problem is the fault of the law, not of Youtube. But nothing in law requires them to implement Content ID at all, let alone to allow big corporations to claim any content they want, or for users who dispute Content ID claims to have their claims adjudicated by the corporation who made the claim, or to allow those corporations to retain their access to the system af…

But there's the law and then there's a company's ability to make another's life miserable by way of lawsuit. So even if you're right, getting sued by Disney, Warner Brothers, Universal and every other player in the media world on a regular basis will cost you a staggering amount of time and money and will generate a lot of bad press. Just taking content down on the other hand costs you very little. And since copyrigh…

The criticisms against Content ID aren't that it can't predict fair use judgements. The worst instances of copyright abuse involve people claiming copyright that they don't own. Either against the original source material in or against works in the public domain.

By following the DMCA, and adhering to the rules, Google would be protected. Instead Google has implemented a system that is even more broken to than the DMCA and somehow has even fewer consequences to incorrect or bad faith claims.

Being a "business looking to make money" is not a moral or ethical justification for any kind of bad behavior.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#156

Post by ben_w »

dryuppi wrote: post #110
willcipriano wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey come on they have original ideas, talking African animals, talking cars, talking fish, talking toys. Without intellectual property protection they wouldn't of made all these super original ideas.

I understand you are ’reworking’ a reductive history of Pixar’s canon meme except for one thing you added: “talking African animals”. Which is a reference to the Lion King, one of the mouse’s 2d classics, which is also one of their most egregious derivative works. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimba_the_White_Lion

The Lion King is more Hamlet than Kimba, I think. Royal family, brother of king kills king to get throne, queen not happy about this turn of events, the kid is elsewhere, ghost of king tells kid to sort it out, kid returns to royal court and after a fight ends up offing the usurper.

But in Hamlet Shakespeare kills everyone; while in The Lion King, Walt disnae.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#157

Post by xhkkffbf »

Log_out_ wrote: post #133
skummetmaelk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take what you can, give nothing back. Apparently.

Very piracy, but okay for the big guy.

You realize that the folks at Disney put in thousands of hours to create their own version of the story. Yeah, they borrowed a bit, but they put in plenty of their own work.

But go ahead and pretend that this is the same as the cheap-ass behavior of some stoned pirate who can't bring himself to pay for content and uses Lessig as a justification for his thievery.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#158

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

mkl wrote: post #153
jamespo wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love watching 2 hour animated films with no dialogue personally

Any recommendations?

Fantasia is 2h 4m according to IMDB. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032455/

12 more years, I guess.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#159

Post by shkkmo »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #132
orra wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Content ID is not required for YouTube to be protected by Safe Harbor.

So you think they built it for the sake of it? No. They literally built it because of all the legal shit they were dealing with. They were literally getting sued and this was their response. Copyright laws requires you put in reasonable efforts and if you're making billions and have thousands of engineers reasonable is not the same as what is reasonable for a company with 40 engineers. I always find it gobsmacking th…

> I always find it gobsmacking that people seem so unaware of why YouTube's copyright system exists in the way it exists. Especially in communities like this where everyone is really full of themselves thinking this is an intellectual space yet here we are.

Gobsmacked that people don't take Eric Schmidt's justifications as face value? Can I be flabbergasted that you don't even try engage critically with statements from a man who is already known to engage in illegal conspiracy with other companies to make more money?

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#160

Post by jsnell »

xrd wrote: post #125
jadbox wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked in digital rights management for YouTube media, and (dare I say) it is far from being pretty good. Claimers can basically deny revenue to uploaded videos for months at a time while the dispute process is occuring. This period is a killzone as many content creators often rely on both the timing and month-to-month revenue to pay bills (content creation doesn't pay well to begin with). The end effect is that…

This is a powerful indictment and should not be missed. I recently read an article about how video games shops don't need to worry about any kind of copying. The reason is that most video games make the lion share of their money in the first few months, and then it tapers off significantly. So, you can copy ideas, styles, and whatever, but it won't dampen opportunities for the original work to make money, so don't wo…

> If a claimer can halt revenue for the first few months on any creative work, they can kill any opportunities to be made off public domain works. This a second order effect of the public domain laws.

Your premise is incorrect, which makes the conclusions invalid. The revenue is not lost during a monetization dispute, it's held in escrow. I.e. even if it were true that the vast majority of revenue of a YT video is generated in the first few months of it existing, the revenue generated by a video that gets a content id match is the same as one that doesn't.

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