Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 209 posts

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#151

Post by piloto_ciego »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #60
piloto_ciego wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a pilot just starting out, in 2007 I’d see a human response maybe 1/100 applications. It’s pretty gross out there for people other than tech employees. What’s pretty funny is now that I’m changing into this field it seems to be adjusting to treat people like crap. So, I guess you’re welcome guys and gals - it’s my fault.

This isn't really about applications though - not getting a human response at the first step has always been common, especially with electronic postings. It's as easy to apply as post, so you do get a lot of spam applicants. If you've had human contact and then radio silenc - IMO that's inexcusable.

Literally all the time in aviation. Now I’m just cynical and do a quantity over quality approach

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#152

Post by 1920musicman »

filoleg wrote: post #138
1920musicman wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's exactly what it is then: a check mark. I can interview dozens of candidates, and then add a total count to my self review. There is no incentive to do a good job (how would that even be evaluated?..).

> how would that even be evaluated? Depends on the company. At my current workplace, the candidate is given an option to provide feedback at the end (either through a form or an email), and all interviewers are also required to submit written notes on how everything went down. Given that a candidate at the onsite will get interviewed by 4-5 people, with each of them providing a very detailed set of notes, it would be…

I am sure what you are describing is being tracked at my company. The concern with misaligned incentives I have is that there is a vast gap between conducting a passable interview in terms of engaging with the candidate and actually investing yourself in the process. So it's not really about being a bad interviewer (as in rude, openly biased, etc) but about having the energy to do the best job you can - which all candidates deserve IMO.

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#153

Post by piloto_ciego »

nradov wrote: post #87
piloto_ciego wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a pilot just starting out, in 2007 I’d see a human response maybe 1/100 applications. It’s pretty gross out there for people other than tech employees. What’s pretty funny is now that I’m changing into this field it seems to be adjusting to treat people like crap. So, I guess you’re welcome guys and gals - it’s my fault.

With the higher market demand for pilots now I suspect that job applicants in that field are now being treated better than they were in 2007.

Yeah, it sucks lol, I can’t fly anymore due to illness, and the demand is crazy I still get called to this day. Now if you can finish fogging a partially fogged mirror you’re hired at a major.

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#154

Post by mschuster91 »

oramit wrote: post #121
frognumber wrote: post #20

One of my top lessons I've learned doing successful startups: 1. Recruiting is the #1 job of any startup CEO, and the #1 determiner of corporate success. 2. Up market, down market, side market, it doesn't matter: You will get better employees if you treat candidates with respect and you will be more competitive. 3. It's a lot of work for the 95% of clowns out there you interview, and there's a push towards automated…

In the last year of my last job I took on recruiting and mentoring tasks as one of my goals for the year. Management encouraged it, I got great feedback all year, and in my annual retrospective I highlighted it as a big win. When the annual review came around though it got no mention and I was basically punished for taking on those tasks because my billable time went down a small amount, even though we all knew (and…

> This randomness to the hiring process means that people don't treat it as a real discipline. And if you do hire a dud, you just fire them. Is it really any wonder that most recruiting processes are so callous?

It's just the same in Europe with way higher standards on recruiting (i.e. anti-discrimination laws are actually enforced) and employee protection laws. Recruiting, accounting and IT are usually seen as a "cost center" by the remainder of the employees instead of being respected as vital contributors to the business, so it's inevitable that people eventually "check out".

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#155

Post by nonrandomstring »

I think its cultural. Disrespect has become normalised as part of "fast paced modern life".

If we give toddlers a TV or tablet to play with instead of attentive parenting they grow up with damaged attachment patterns. We stop them playing outside and interacting with other children. They go through metal detectors to attend hostile schools in a locked-down environment and communicate only through text messages. They are watched night and day by CCTV cameras. They're made to feel ashamed of simply existing because they're using up air and "killing the planet".

Do this for 20 or 30 years and we have a generation of timid, avoidant people with no interpersonal skills who as Julia Roberts' character in Sam Esmail's new movie "Leave the World Behind" puts it just "hate other people".

And then we use dating apps that reduce other humans to a dismissibe swipe. Those are our peers today. We treat each other like machines and mutual threats, because that's all we've ever experienced.

Is it any wonder that people in companies are too terrified to engage in a risky human-human interaction?

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#157

Post by foldr »

FredPret wrote: post #55
drewcoo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> treat candidates with respect > 95% of clowns out there you interview What's your company affiliation?

You can and should treat someone with respect, even if your expectation is that there's a 95% chance they will turn out to be a clown.

IMO this way of looking at it is indicative of a lack of respect for candidates, even if communication is superficially respectful. If someone performs badly in an interview then by all means don't hire them, but it's both unkind and irrational to jump to the conclusion that they're a 'clown'. If someone is making such a harsh judgment about 95% of their applicants, on the basis of an interview process which we know to be highly imperfect, then I would not want to work for them.

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#158

Post by sjducb »

If you get ghosted it usually means that you were almost good enough, or it was something unrelated to you.

The bad candidates get an immediate rejection.

The best candidates get offers quickly.

Candidates that are kind of good enough, but not amazing are the ones who get ghosted. The employer doesn’t want to say yes in case they find someone better. They also don’t want to say no because you are “good enough” and if the next 3 candidates suck then you’ll get the job. Then they forget to tell you when they hire #3.

The other ghosting is when the whole project gets cancelled mid interview. Often people involved aren’t sure if the project will be cancelled so they don’t tell the candidates early. Then when the cancellation is in full swing everyone has forgotten about the candidates.

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#159

Post by billy_bitchtits »

My company ghosted me for an internal advancement opportunity. A short interview with the HR recruiter then silence for 2 months, even from my manager. I had to complain to the head of HR to get a response letting me know that they're going with an external hire.

Re: Everyone's getting ghosted, the new normal in tech recruiting

#160

Post by ponderings »

tayo42 wrote: post #83
skeeter2020 wrote: post #54

This is NOT the new normal, and we should NOT accept it. Everyone here should do their part; for example, I'm more often a hiring manager and will not tolerate ghosting anyone who gets to any interaction with engineering. IME it's lazy recruiters who are responsible for this, and they're about as big of a part of tech as an accountant, i.e. very little. I don't understand why many people are hesitant to name and sham…

> I don't understand why many people are hesitant to name and shame the individuals and companies. The risk for repercussion isn't worth it. Your going to go online and stir up shit? Corporate culture is way to risk averse. If you are the kind of person getting ghosted and rejected from interviews you evidently aren't a person with any leverage in the hiring market.

I've had strange success walking up to the guy, telling him I want us to deliver fantastic work together, I want to work with you - together. What I don't want is to go to the boss and tell him you've fucked up, you are lazy, that you are doing a poor job and that we would be better off without you. This is the last thing I want. The best outcome is that we get someone else who knows nothing. If that doesn't happen you would blame me. Then I give him a detailed list of things I think they should have done differently.

It costs a few relationship points but they do respect the practicality of it.

Post reply on HN