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Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

taoshu.in

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Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#151

Post by emmet »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #131
tambre wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Estonia has personalidentificationcode@eesti.ee and registrycode@eesti.ee, which you are supposed to set up to forward to your actual email aadress. Unfortunately these are restricted for use by governmental agencies for important official notifications (e.g. you're being conscripted, your marital status changed, something has changed in regard to a property you own). [0] You could create a public alias of the form f…

> Unfortunately these are restricted for use by governmental agencies for important official notifications (e.g. you're being conscripted, your marital status changed, something has changed in regard to a property you own). When your marital status changes, isn't that a notification that goes from you to the government, and not the other way around?

Your tax codes aren’t going to update the minute you say your vows. Someone needs to do that on the other side and let you know when it’s been processed.

Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#152

Post by csnover »

sheikheddy wrote: post #47

I work on Microsoft's anti-spam team, AMA!

I guess my question is can you please fix your braindead blacklisting?

Several times per year—I can practically guarantee it’ll happen sometime in December, and indeed had to deal with this just five days ago—I end up with a bunch of users whose email notifications stop working because Microsoft have started blocking the entire netrange where my server lives. I don’t have control over other Linode customers, guys! I even wrote extra code to stop sending mail to addresses that start bouncing specifically to avoid blacklisting, so after MS finally processes a blacklist mitigation request, someone also has to go in and re-enable those accounts.

SPF, DKIM, DMARC are all configured; I’ve sent from the same IP address for about a decade; I’ve not once received an email abuse report; mail volume is low (most days, volume does not reach the minimum threshold for SNDS to report data[0]). I’ve never had any other mail provider blacklist my server. SNDS always says everything is OK as I am S3150s. What is even the purpose of SNDS at this point when it lies about what is going on?

[0] P.S. The janky SNDS calendar widget resets the month to the current month every time you click on a date, even if the date being viewed is in a previous month. I don’t have any hope that anyone will ever touch SNDS code again since it was clearly designed in the early 2000s and the copyright on the site is now ten years old, but this is a pretty silly bug.

Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#153

Post by thaumasiotes »

emmet wrote: post #151
thaumasiotes wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately these are restricted for use by governmental agencies for important official notifications (e.g. you're being conscripted, your marital status changed, something has changed in regard to a property you own). When your marital status changes, isn't that a notification that goes from you to the government, and not the other way around?

Your tax codes aren’t going to update the minute you say your vows. Someone needs to do that on the other side and let you know when it’s been processed.

Why? Does anything change after it's been processed? What are you going to do differently at that point?

Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#154

Post by tsimionescu »

benbristow wrote: post #41
freetanga wrote: post #39

I think that governments should offer one free email account per citizen for life. Which you could use or not, but is there for you as a digital inbox… which are the options? - Self hosting is a bit elitist - not for the masses. - A paid-for option (proton, tutta,…) would be cataloged as elitist. People perceive email as free. - A free option provided by a Corporate player will gravitate towards monopolies and lack o…

Ah yes, a government owned email service, what could go wrong?

Well, the government owned physical mail service worked pretty well for a few centuries, so... Not much?

Now, of course, you shouldn't be organizing a criminal conspiracy or in general much anti-government protests over the mail or government-downed email. But the majority of communication is quite benign, and so having a government email for the 80% use case (bills, party invites, holiday wishes, etc) would be great. You can use a separate service for your more sensitive communication.

Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#155

Post by uxp8u61q »

spoiledtechie wrote: post #114

GMail is the worst for email blocking resolutions. They don't have an effective feedback loop built into their system. So when a user does block you, no one is told about it, to be fixed. Therefore lowering your reputation with them over time. How can we as ESPs respond to them appropriately with removal of these people who don't want our emails anymore, if we don't know who the user is? If there are any GMAIL servic…

Maybe ask yourself why some users end up blocking you altogether. Surely you didn't start sending them newsletters or the like without being completely certain that they wanted to receive them, and you provide a simple, prominent and reliable way to unsubscribe if/when they change their mind, right?

Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#156

Post by vel0city »

b112 wrote: post #81
freetanga wrote: post #39

I think that governments should offer one free email account per citizen for life. Which you could use or not, but is there for you as a digital inbox… which are the options? - Self hosting is a bit elitist - not for the masses. - A paid-for option (proton, tutta,…) would be cataloged as elitist. People perceive email as free. - A free option provided by a Corporate player will gravitate towards monopolies and lack o…

A paid-for option (proton, tutta,…) would be cataloged as elitist. People perceive email as free. The era of Pii as a commodity is coming to a close. The writing is on the wall for this. Once that happens, free email will vanish. Poof. Gone. So will many other "free" online things. This period of most people getting free email is really quite short historically. A decade. (Many people used to get email addresses from…

> This period of most people getting free email is really quite short historically. A decade.

I do agree from a long perspective free email has been somewhat short. But I'm not sure about scoping it to just a decade. It was easy to get a Gmail account in 2004, that's close to 20 years ago. And Gmail wasn't even the first free email host, loads of people used other free email services like Yahoo (1997), Hotmail (1996), Lycos (1997), and others. 1996-2024 is 28 years, close to three decades.

Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#157

Post by StayTrue »

I had this problem for years. I would get the block lifted and it would return in short order. I surmise it’s because my mail server runs on a VPS and other users on my subnet are not well behaved (actually I know this for a fact).

I solved the problem by paying for a next hop SMTPS server as an upstream smarthost for non-local mails. That means my mails come from a subnet that fronts TONS of other servers/domains. That makes it a bigger headache for MS to block.

Sad but there you go. I do not use the external service for inbound. Inbound mails come direct to my server per the MX.

Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#158

Post by lotsofpulp »

iAMkenough wrote: post #145
lotsofpulp wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, although I think the utility of a communications network capable of receiving and sending documents within a country is very well proven to be a benefit to society, so any comparison to something less battle tested seems unnecessary. It makes no sense that in the physical world, we entrust government with identity verification and transmitting correspondence, but that trust is somehow lost in the digital world.

I think the utility of a social communications network capable of receiving and sending updates within a country is a very well proven benefit to society, so any attempt to draw a line between email and social updates seems unnecessary. Each US citizen deserves access to a public network to express their First Amendment right without moderation.

> Each US citizen deserves access to a public network to express their First Amendment right without moderation.

Sure, make access to the internet an inalienable right also, but web hosting and domains are cheap enough that that should suffice. The network is the internet, and if people want to visit your website to see what you are saying, they can.

Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#159

Post by huhtenberg »

seszett wrote: post #112
wolverine876 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they ever respond? Maybe the block comes and goes, and has nothing to do with attempts to contact Microsoft?

They responded to me when I asked to get unblocked: We have implemented mitigation for your IP (51.15.2.26) and this process may take 24 - 48 hours to replicate completely throughout our system.

Yep, exactly. That's the follow-up we get for the "Escalate" request.

The IP's different tho :)

Re: Outlook/Hotmail is no longer blocking my mail server

#160

Post by vel0city »

shaicoleman wrote: post #73

Outlook/Hotmail blocks DigitalOcean. After half a dozens attempts over the years to delist my IP, and following all the best practices (dedicated fixed IP, SPF, DKIM, DMARC, FCrDNS, zero spam, TLS, etc.) I gave up. Eventually, most people realize that their Outlook/Hotmail email service is defective because they're not receiving emails, and they migrate to another email service.

I've had decent deliverability to some of my Outlook addresses from my Digital Ocean droplets for about a decade. Low volume (a dozen or so a week?), only to a few dozen addresses. I had poor deliverability until I updated the Reverse DNS to match my sending hostname. Since then, I have not had a single email get filtered.
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