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Cray-1 vs Raspberry Pi

roylongbottom.org.uk

151–160 of 193 posts

Re: Cray-1 vs Raspberry Pi

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the early customers was the European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts, so, wild guess, they probably used it for medium-range weather forecasts.

Numerically, I’m currently what this would have looked like. I’m talking about the governing equation set, discretization methods, data, etc. It would be a fun project to try and implement a toy model like that.

> It would be a fun project to try and implement a toy model like that.

If you really want a challenge, do it using pen, paper and a slide rule, like in the old days[1]. Just make sure to apply appropriate smoothing of the input data first[2].

[1]: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-world-war-i-chang...

[2]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2210.01674

Re: Cray-1 vs Raspberry Pi

#152
post #52

It's wild to imagine that 40 or so years from now, someone will have a drawer full of cheap plastic boxes, each with more power than the fastest computing cluster of 2023... promising to themselves that one day they're finally going to build that hobby project with one of them.

Didn’t the Apollo guidance computer, which took people to the moon, have 4K of RAM? Today, 1 million times that barely runs the OS and a few Chrome tabs.

I’ve looked inside that capsule. I wouldn’t ride in it to the grocery store!

Re: Cray-1 vs Raspberry Pi

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think so? Aren’t we at the end of Moore’s law, so I’m really doubtful that we’ll see massive leaps like that.

Moore's law will die when we have 3D stacks of silicon thick enough that even integrated liquid cooling can't keep it cool. With feature sizes measured in a few atoms. Or when economics of fabricating such structures just aren't worth it.

Yeah made out of not silicon.

Moores ‘law’ is a human driven law.

Computing is basically the absolute center of our society.

As long as our civilization exists we will spend massive resources on this.

Thus as long as it’s physically possible we’ll have progress.

Re: Cray-1 vs Raspberry Pi

#154
i wonder how moore's law figured into the pricing - for a nuclear simulation, makes sense you'd want to pay a lot, or basic science or political things like apollo moon missions, but for weather or commercial applications, if you wait a few years might not be worth to pay for cray right away, though there's marketing aspect of how advanced your product is.. maybe this was before moores law though

Re: Cray-1 vs Raspberry Pi

#155

Is there any software apart from benchmarks that will make it feel that fast. All softwares that I use feel more advanced version of things that I ran on my 386. GUI, IDE, compiler, office... I understand that the exercise may still be theoretical as any sw used by Met now will be designed for million time fast computers. But there should exist some software that would have required Cray to run then.

A lot of the stuff that took hours back then can now be done in sub-seconds. Think about mechanical engineering: Back then they might have simulated how cars deform in a crash. Now we can perform similar simulations in real-time for fun in our video games. Afaik it's hardly ever done because no one actually needs physically accurate models in games, but it could be done. Same goes for rendering back then they rendere…

I think there's something to be said for the wait period. The time to anticipate the result makes it feel very worthwhile, especially when only a handful of machines on the planet can do the calculation.

It all feels very mundane when I can do it on my slow commodity laptop in under a second.

Re: Cray-1 vs Raspberry Pi

#156
post #64

Is there any software apart from benchmarks that will make it feel that fast. All softwares that I use feel more advanced version of things that I ran on my 386. GUI, IDE, compiler, office... I understand that the exercise may still be theoretical as any sw used by Met now will be designed for million time fast computers. But there should exist some software that would have required Cray to run then.

No. The Cray-1 ran batch processing jobs, mostly scientific simulations which took hours or days to compute. It had a terminal interface and wasn't used for real time interactive applications.

It was a later machine than the Cray-1, but I remember seeing a post on the jsoftware forums from someone that ran interactive APL on a Cray. Having a REPL to access a machine like that in that era must have been quite something.

Re: Cray-1 vs Raspberry Pi

#157
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The Cray-1 ran batch processing jobs, mostly scientific simulations which took hours or days to compute. It had a terminal interface and wasn't used for real time interactive applications.

IIRC, in real world installations the Cray would have been paired with a minicomputer or mainframe.

The Wiki article on the Cray-1 indicates that it had a Data General Eclipse as its front-end processor.

Re: Cray-1 vs Raspberry Pi

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is vector different from simd?

The RISC-V Vector extension allows the vector length to vary at runtime whereas with SIMD the vector length is fixed at compile time (128 bit, 256 bit etc.). It means the code is more portable basically. With x86 SIMD the standard solution is to compile the same code multiple times for different SIMD widths (using different instructions) and then detect the CPU at runtime. Though that is such a pain that it's only re…

That design seems like a reasonable thing for a high level language that could then be converted to different architectures’ simd widths. But I’m kinda surprised it’s good at the ISA level. Eg for something like a vectorized strlen, mightn’t one worry that the cpu would choose vlen[1] too large causing you to load from cache lines (or pages!) that turn out to be unnecessary for finding the length of the string. With the various simd extensions on x86 or arm, such a routine could be carefully written to align with cache lines and so avoid depending on reading the next line when the string ends before it. I also worry about various simd tricks that seem to rely on the width. Eg I think there’s some instruction to interpret each half-byte of one vector as an index into some vector of 16 things. How could these be ported to risc-v? Or maybe that’s not the sort of thing their vector extensions are meant for.

I guess part of my thinking here is that the ISA designers at intel, arm, aren’t stupid, but they ended up with fixed widths for sse, neon, knights landing, avx, avx-512. Presumably they had reasons to prefer that to the dynamic risc-v style thing. So I wonder: are there some risc-v constraints the push this design (eg maybe low-power environments presumably pushed neon to have a small width and this made higher-power environments suffer; having a dynamic length might allow both to use the same machine code), or were there some reasons intel preferred to stick with fixed widths, eg making something that could only work on more expensive chips and thereby having something people can pay more for? Is there something reasonable written about why risc-v went with this design.

[1] what do you even pass to vsetvl in this case as you don’t know your string length.

Re: Cray-1 vs Raspberry Pi

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

link?

I'm referring to the same page, under the "Background Activities" heading

www.roylongbottom.org.uk/Cray 1 Supercomputer Performance Comparisons With Home Computers Phones and Tablets.htm#anchor1
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