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Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

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Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#151

Post by panarky »

pixl97 wrote: post #131
stavros wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like saying "because that's how locks work, the company who sold you the lock can just come open your door".

This is exactly correct, though you don't want to admit it's the case it seems. I mean, we just allowed Car Manufactures to pump as much contact data and location data as they can off your phones and sell it to whomever they'd like risk free and legally. We have laws against physical trespassing, but when it comes to 'data' trespassing on applications that you install or come with your phone we're still in the wild w…

> and sell it to whomever they'd like

Is there any evidence that car manufacturers are harvesting data from drivers' phones and selling it without consent?

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#152

Post by amlib »

readams wrote: post #32
JKCalhoun wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love when I launch an app and then get a bevy of requests to access my Camera, my Microphone, my Contacts, etc... I nope out and if the functionality of the app is trashed, so goes the app.... Google Maps constantly hounding me to turn on precision location services, asking me if I am navigating for a friend and to allow access to my contacts... Wow, no.

You don't think location is useful for a map ... ?

Well, a physical map certainly doesn't keep pestering me for my location...

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#153

Post by madeofpalk »

stavros wrote: post #59
MBCook wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certain apps have always gotten special treatment. If it’s big enough to mess with phone sales they’re allowed nonsense a normal dev would be permanently banned for. Ex: all the stuff FB has been caught doing over the years My understanding (no first hand experience) is that WeChat and Alipay are basically required in China. If a phone doesn’t have them, it’s worthless and won’t sell. So naturally they too can do non…

Why does apple get to decide which app gets automatic access to my private data, on my device, without needing to ask me?

You buy Apple hardware, which is a pretty strong signal that you trust Apple.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#154

Post by smith7018 »

n2d4 wrote: post #133
paxys wrote: post #105

Reading through the linked docs, this API seems to specifically be for apps created by owners of WiFi hotspots to help users connect to those hotspots ( https://developer.apple.com/documentation/networkextension/h... ). > NEHotspotHelper allows your app to participate in the process of authenticating with hotspot networks, that is, Wi-Fi networks where the user must interact with the network to gain access to the wid…

I don't know about Alipay, but afaict WeChat needs this feature for WeChat Wifi, which lets users connect to internet hotspots from their WeChat accounts https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzI1NjA0NzQzOQ==&mid=265026...

I’m sure that’s valid but I’ve worked for mobile app companies and can guarantee features like this are added just to get the entitlement.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#155

Post by Keejazz »

mrtksn wrote: post #55
ghusto wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TL:DR; Apps can access the nearby Wi-Fi hotspot SSID and MAC addresses through an API that is intended to help with connecting to hotspots. Then they can use this info to look-up in databases that collect SSIDs based on their locations. This is the whole story. Thank you for writing it, and sorry that you're getting downvoted for it. > I'm sorry you don't like it but that's the truth, the author left out crucial de…

I wish too. I hate it when I don't know why I'm downvoted.

I did not downvote you, but I did react a bit negatively to the comment about the language (we know it is chatgpt, at least in part) of the article. I was curious about the prompting, so I used a regular translator to get a feel of the original article, and I feel the original language seem OK (if my translators are half decent). I also reacted negatively to the last sentence in your comment, because to me, it felt like a truth-declaration based on an assumption (the author deliberately did not include...) - however, after translating the original and not being able to find anything about it there, either, I agree your assumption might very well be the truth, but this would still be intention-guessing, and that put me off a tiny bit. (if you read Chinese, all this would be an unfair assumption from my part, and I apologise :)

I would never downwote for such things, personally. I found your TL:DR to be good (including more information as well as replaying the mains of the article is great value, thank you!) to care about small stuff mentioned above. But you seemed to want to understand why some have downvoted, and as I got a bit of negative reaction from the parts mentioned, I thought I could explain my feelings for them, in the hopes this might actually be useful for you.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#157

Post by salawat »

ben_w wrote: post #95
coldacid wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you bought a closed-source device by which you surrendered your privacy to whatever the source-controlling company wants.

Quite a few apps run tests to find out if they're running on a rooted device, and refuse to continue if they are. Dunno if these apps do that or not, but I can easily imagine that using them is a Hobson's Choice even in OSS utopia: take the horse offered (app with tracking) or don't have a horse.

There is no Hobson's choice in OSS utopia, as the outcome of "app with tracking offered only" is "fork app - tracking".

You can sit there and stew over the gall of those people to do it, but if you piss them off enough, it will happen.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#158

Post by mrtksn »

Keejazz wrote: post #155
mrtksn wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish too. I hate it when I don't know why I'm downvoted.

I did not downvote you, but I did react a bit negatively to the comment about the language (we know it is chatgpt, at least in part) of the article. I was curious about the prompting, so I used a regular translator to get a feel of the original article, and I feel the original language seem OK (if my translators are half decent). I also reacted negatively to the last sentence in your comment, because to me, it felt l…

Thanks for this detailed feedback!

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#159

Post by salawat »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #8
coldcode wrote: post #2

FYI, that API requires entitlements to be used, which are only available if you request them from Apple and justify their use. It's not a general-purpose API any app can use.

Most entitlements though trigger a privacy prompt to allow the user to disable the functionality. Without writing a test app, I don't know that this is the case with this entitlement. I think it should ask the user's permission.

Keep in mind that in a corporate context, not asking the user for permission or explaining what/why you are doing something is the (sociopathic imo, but nevertheless) norm. To the degree you do disclose something like that it is inevitably hidden away or obfuscated by being put somewhere in the UX that no one ever really goes.

Like seriously. I had the argument before;

Architect: we're going to fingerprint users. Me: are you going to disclose that? Architect: Of course not. Me: It's their device. You should ask. Architect: That defeats the point. Me: You either don't understand property rights, or clearly have issues with the concept of consent.

The entire IT space has been decades of building while eliding the fact these experiences are fundamentally being driven on someone else's hardware.

But that's just the world we live in I suppose.

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