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$750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

latimes.com

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Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#151

Post by rufus_foreman »

ryuhhnn wrote: post #137
rufus_foreman wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> money isn’t even real This is true, in the Philip K. Dick conception of reality ("Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away"), so maybe something we all shouldn't get worked up about? If we stop believing in our duty to return the favor, what happens? Or if we stop believing that there is such a thing as society? If we stop believing in usury, does it exist?

why are you assuming I’m “worked up”? I was simply asking some questions and just because I disagree with the original commenter’s characterisation doesn’t mean I’m necessarily upset. In fact, quite the opposite, I’m curious why so many people blindly accept things as “real” when they are only “real” insofar as we make it so.

>> I’m curious why so many people blindly accept things as “real” when they are only “real” insofar as we make it so

Well like you said, money isn't real. Sure is convenient though.

Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#152

Post by HenryBemis »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #41
datadrivenangel wrote: post #30

"About 2% of the total went to alcohol, cigarettes and drug expenses — the largest portion of which was cigarettes" I'm pretty sure that the average American spends more than 2% of their income on drugs.

That spending was self-reported. Do you think the average American would self-report more?

It is relative easy/simple to calculate this with 'some' accuracy.

If you ask someone how much they smoke per day, (that's pretty consistent) and they respond "2 packs of X brand", then you know the brand, you know the price x365 you can estimate the cost. If you point blank ask me "how much do you spend on pizzas every year", I can't just pull a number out of a hat. I will do the math: €20 per pizza x 1 per month = approx 240.

Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#153

Post by ryuhhnn »

Georgelemental wrote: post #119
ryuhhnn wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? Crime does not happen in a vacuum. The idea that people steal because it’s fun or commit fraud because they enjoy seeing their victims suffer is not supported by any sort of rigorous sociological or criminological understanding of social deviance. If you want to fix crime, you need to fix the social ills that cause people to turn to crime to begin with. Of course crime prevents people from improving…

When Nayib Bukele ignored the "experts" and locked up nearly 2% of El Salvador's population, not only did the homicide rate fall off a cliff—economic growth also increased. (Bukele also worked hard to woo foreign investors, without which this would not have been possible; but those investors only felt confident in investing due to the decrease in crime.)

> In effectively all societies, the vast majority of serious crimes are committed by a tiny sliver of the population who offend again and again.

I agree hence removing that 2% of murderers caused the homicide rate to drop dramatically and not just by 2%. The fact that we are even talking about homicide though is a complete detraction from the original post that is showing how giving people money helps them improve their lives and not rely on crime to sustain themselves. Are you not understanding that the majority of crime that exists in a society is petty crime that doesn’t cause any serious physical harm to others or society at large? Why do you lump murderers into this category?

Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#154

Post by creer »

aziaziazi wrote: post #66
monsecchris wrote: post #4

If that’s the best they can say about $750 a month, it sounds like a terrible investment.

What other found would you recommend? Investing in our fellow humans has always been the best investment for any society, if not its sheer definition.

Which fraction of people did it get past temporary hurdles?

Which fraction of people did it give time to work on their problems?

Which fraction of people did it help find stability?

Which fraction of people did it help on mental illness / outlook / comfort / whatever?

Which fraction of people did it move within recommended nutrition baseline?

How difficult is it to come up with more interesting measures than "improved"?

Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#155

Post by blacksmith_tb »

ryuhhnn wrote: post #113
ejb999 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

free money, even better.

Why is paying into a social safety net considered “free money” but usury is not? Why is it that when rich people as for money it’s a “loan” but when poor people ask for money it’s a “handout”. Free money is never free, money isn’t even real. You live in a society and if you want people to be there for you when you are down, you have a duty to return the favour.

I agree about having a duty to each other, I guess I'd describe giving money to the poor as an investment to benefit all of us (and clearly the amount paid into the social safety net can be bigger for the rich, who can spare it). But that is a more nebulous payback than loaning money to the rich, who can and will pay it back directly?

Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#156

Post by hezralig »

HenryBemis wrote: post #126
rufus_foreman wrote: post #34

Money is good, researchers determine.

Money is good, but how about only 750 of them US Dollars? I have been going through the exercise of "what if I became homeless?" and where/under what conditions would I live, where, what support I could be getting, etc. $750 or even €500 would give me an 'amazing life' in certain places in Europe. One could even buy a crappy/rotting minivan and convert it to a 'small home', as long as it is in a warm country (can't m…

Is there not socialized healthcare in Europe? This would just be replacing cash disbursements in lieu of a total monthly or yearly UBI payment.

Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#157

Post by hezralig »

creer wrote: post #154
aziaziazi wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other found would you recommend? Investing in our fellow humans has always been the best investment for any society, if not its sheer definition.

Which fraction of people did it get past temporary hurdles? Which fraction of people did it give time to work on their problems? Which fraction of people did it help find stability? Which fraction of people did it help on mental illness / outlook / comfort / whatever? Which fraction of people did it move within recommended nutrition baseline? How difficult is it to come up with more interesting measures than "improve…

"Those who got the stipend were less likely to be unsheltered after six months and able to meet more of their basic needs than a control group that got no money, and half as likely as the control group to have an episode of being unsheltered."

Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#158

Post by pseudalopex »

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #87
datadrivenangel wrote: post #30

"About 2% of the total went to alcohol, cigarettes and drug expenses — the largest portion of which was cigarettes" I'm pretty sure that the average American spends more than 2% of their income on drugs.

I bet that average homeless person does too. 2% seems ridiculously low. $15 a month total on drugs? That only makes sense for someone who does no opioids, no stimulants, and just smokes 1 pack of cigs and has a single beer across an entire month.

The median American consumes no illegal drugs, no tobacco, and approximately 2 alcoholic drinks monthly.

Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#159

Post by eli »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #149
soupfordummies wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woah, had no idea it was that high. And that's in a decade that is considered one of the best in US history (if you were the "right" demographic of course). Any idea what the top tax bracket was that had that rate? Wonder what it would be now adjusted for inflation.

A more important question is how many people actually paid that rate since the tax code was chock full of loopholes, much more than now. Trump manages to pay almost no income taxes for several decades because of a few minor loopholes left behind. Imagine what that meant in the 1950s

This is true, but even with all that taken into account taxes on the very wealthy are lower now than they were then.

Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#160

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

HenryBemis wrote: post #152
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That spending was self-reported. Do you think the average American would self-report more?

It is relative easy/simple to calculate this with 'some' accuracy. If you ask someone how much they smoke per day, (that's pretty consistent) and they respond "2 packs of X brand", then you know the brand, you know the price x365 you can estimate the cost. If you point blank ask me "how much do you spend on pizzas every year", I can't just pull a number out of a hat. I will do the math: €20 per pizza x 1 per month =…

Are you underestimating how much people lie, even to themselves?

Esp here. “Hey; want to be part of a study where we give you free money to see if it helps you out?”… “Ok, now how much of that money did you use on things that were harmful to you?” You could perform that study with anyone and you’re going to get BS answers and estimations.

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