Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A genetically modified bacterium that outcompetes bacteria causing tooth decay

astralcodexten.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–158 of 158 posts

Re: A genetically modified bacterium that outcompetes bacteria causing tooth decay

#151

Post by throwaway290 »

hedora wrote: post #109
david_l_lin wrote: post #20

This story has been around for far too long and evidence is unbelievably weak, and the claims border on fraudulent. 1. The claim that this strain outcompetes the same S mutans from occupying the same niche cannot be true unless this strain is also capable of creating and tolerating environments with low pH. By definition if it creates acid to the same degree it will also cause cavities. 2. Single applications are ins…

Any thoughts on these folks? (They are your direct competitor.) https://probiorahealth.com/product/probiora/ A decade or so ago, their founder started with genetically modified bacteria that supposedly outcompete wildtype strains. The regulators responded in the only sane way possible, and it didn't go to human trials, from what I can tell. List of publications from their founder: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?ter…

Your first link redirects to Google.

     curl -v https://probiorahealth.com/product/probiora/

    > GET /product/probiora/ HTTP/1.1
    > Host: probiorahealth.com
    > User-Agent: curl/8.1.2
    > Accept: */*
    >

Re: A genetically modified bacterium that outcompetes bacteria causing tooth decay

#152

Post by anjel »

mikk14 wrote: post #59
shmde wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your diet ? I am assuminf there is no processed sugar or refined wheat/gluten ?

Not OP, but in a similar situation. I'm 39, the last time a dentist looked in my mouth I was probably 16 or so* and I brush only once a day (after breakfast, which is the least effective over doing it before going to sleep). Never had a cavity. I don't think I have halitosis, at least the people I have kissed over the years never complained to me. Being Italian, I eat pasta literally every day, and my daily breakfast…

Anecdata: all members of my nuclear family have crowded, crooked teeth. We all have a penchant for sweets across the day. My mom is 93 and has no cavities, but her A1c started reading for 6 in the last few years. I'm 61 and have one filling. FWIW, offer the years, lots of dentists have found other cavities in my mouth, but no two dentists have ever found the same cavities... Between the four of us in my family, there aren't even 5 fillings in our ugly teeth.

Re: A genetically modified bacterium that outcompetes bacteria causing tooth decay

#153

Post by jlund-molfese »

This quote seems like it can't possibly be true—is it? One would imagine that even if you avoided kissing anyone your entire life, you'd still get cavities.

> Babies have no existing mouth bacteria, and get theirs from their parents’ kisses. Not necessarily their first kiss as a newborn (newborns have no teeth, and BCS3-L1 needs teeth to live), but their first kiss after teeth grow in. If you get this, you’re probably getting it for your whole future family line.

Re: A genetically modified bacterium that outcompetes bacteria causing tooth decay

#154

Post by hypercube33 »

jseliger wrote: post #17
phero_cnstrcts wrote: post #2

> The FDA demanded a study of 100 subjects, all of whom had to be “age 18-30, with removable dentures, living alone and far from school zones”. Hillman wasn’t sure there even were 100 young people with dentures, but the FDA wouldn’t budge from requiring this impossible trial. Hillman gave up and switched to other projects Interesting that the FDA can request such things. Would be a good way to block disruptive produc…

The FDA is often bad: https://jakeseliger.com/2023/07/22/i-am-dying-of-squamous-ce... . It is good at "protecting" people from things that might help them. Like many others, I'm being protected from treatments that might harm me, so the cancer I've got can kill me instead.

It's wild we aren't digging into bacteria phages and instead roll down the antibiotics road while it's ok to use them for sandwich meats. Yes they are living and adapt but so does bacteria.

Re: A genetically modified bacterium that outcompetes bacteria causing tooth decay

#155

Post by danielsousame »

Beijinger wrote: post #56

I just rinse my mouth every night with sugar, in addition to brushing. Have not had problems since. Effect of three-year consumption of erythritol, xylitol and sorbitol candies on various plaque and salivary caries-related variables https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24095985/ Xylitol and erythritol inhibit real-time biofilm formation of Streptococcus mutans https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32600259/ And, what I always e…

Two tablespoons of which? One of each? Two of each?

What's the purpose of the myrrh? It seems to appear a bit out of nowhere in the recipe

Re: A genetically modified bacterium that outcompetes bacteria causing tooth decay

#156

Post by Yvain »

gamblor956 wrote: post #140
margalabargala wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstood the author. The treatment was proposed to the FDA decades ago as a drug . The drug approval process yielded the impossible ask. Those same standards prevent them from seeking FDA approval now as a drug . That this could be approved as a probiotic is a recent idea. The impossible standards are not the probiotic lenient standards.

For a product supposedly being pushed by a bunch of rationalists, nothing about this drug or the underlying story is actually rational if you know anything about how the FDA approval process works. The approval process supposedly required an impossible ask. Oddly enough, I could find no record of this impossible ask anywhere except in this company's website or on other "rationalist" websites, all of whom cite this co…

Here's a discussion of this in the New York Times - https://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/30/health/bacteria-enlisted-...

"Dr. Hillman has been working on this therapy for 25 years and first applied to the F.D.A. for permission to begin a clinical trial in 1998. The agency, the company said, has demanded change upon change to make sure the modified bacteria would not run amok, cause undesirable changes in the mouth, or revert to a cavity-producing form. To win approval, Oragenics has agreed that the 15 volunteers in the first trial will not even have teeth -- they will have dentures."

This differs from the version I heard from Aaron in that Aaron said 100 people and NYT says 15 people, but NYT says the FDA demanded "change after change", so the 100 might be either an earlier or a later version of this.

Hopefully this changes your opinion of whether or not this is a scam, and of how much you understand about the FDA approval process.

Re: A genetically modified bacterium that outcompetes bacteria causing tooth decay

#157

Post by gamblor956 »

Yvain wrote: post #156
gamblor956 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a product supposedly being pushed by a bunch of rationalists, nothing about this drug or the underlying story is actually rational if you know anything about how the FDA approval process works. The approval process supposedly required an impossible ask. Oddly enough, I could find no record of this impossible ask anywhere except in this company's website or on other "rationalist" websites, all of whom cite this co…

Here's a discussion of this in the New York Times - https://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/30/health/bacteria-enlisted-... "Dr. Hillman has been working on this therapy for 25 years and first applied to the F.D.A. for permission to begin a clinical trial in 1998. The agency, the company said, has demanded change upon change to make sure the modified bacteria would not run amok, cause undesirable changes in the mouth, or rev…

Given that this version from the NYT is very different from the one in the post, and far more reasonable in its requirements, it makes it even more apparent that the linked product is a scam.

Exaggerating details the way the linked post does is one of the major red flags of almost every scam. Especially dangerous is the way it attempts to make the regulator the enemy based on a fraudulent retelling of actual events.

Re: A genetically modified bacterium that outcompetes bacteria causing tooth decay

#158

Post by readthenotes1 »

Grimblewald wrote: post #47
readthenotes1 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, modern science involves humans, human interests, and human failings. Science practice is as flawed as the people that do it.

Yes, but the pay is shit, the social recognition is non existent, etc. So its not going to attract as many of the dark triad types like law or upper managment would.

I'd ask for proof of that assertion but...
Post reply on HN