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Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

timeuse.barcelona

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Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#151

Post by danaris »

ghaff wrote: post #87
xoa wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well we can't, and that's having tried! The replies do a great job of illustrating why really: there's no consensus. Some want permanent standard time. Some want permanent DST. Some are fine the way it is. In a big country spanning a lot of latitude as well as longitude and tens of millions on wildly different work and sleep schedules, messy compromise making no one entirely happy is what success looks like. Basicall…

I don't really care any longer having a pretty flexible schedule and no commute. But living in relatively northern New England, the timezone tweaks for summer and winter really were pretty welcome. I suspect that most of those ranting about timezone changes wouldn't actually want sunrise at 4am or sunset at 3pm.

I live in Upstate New York, and care much more about the frustration, added stress, and provable loss of life that results from the twice-yearly changing of the clocks than I do about what the clock says when the sun is setting. If I want more sunlight during the time I'm awake, I can get up earlier in the morning.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#152

Post by [deleted] »

datadrivenangel wrote: post #2

"After agreement of a common date within the EU, we recommend doing the transition in 1 to 2 steps, depending on the member state: Step 1: All EU countries abolish the clock change to DST in spring and remain on the clock time they use in winter. For those countries whose recommended time zone is their current standard time, no further steps need to be taken. Step 2: Those countries whose recommended time zone is not…

[deleted]

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#153

Post by slartibardfast0 »

morsch wrote: post #142
theodric wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, however, endorsed by some EU department and a bunch of other entities (see bottom)

The only organisation related to the EU is the European Economic and Social Committee, which is[1]: a consultative body of the European Union (EU) established in 1958. It is an advisory assembly composed of "social partners", namely: employers (employers' organisations), employees (trade unions) and representatives of various other interests. ...ok? This does not strike me as a particularly important institution. Som…

also, was it some formal declaration by this body, or just someone with an email address from the organization?

doubtless, the irish representatives wouldn't support any divergence between Dublin and Belfast, (especially considering this is wrong from a spatial perspective as population density is heavily skewed to the east of the island).

edit: i was curious enough to email all of the irish delegates to this organisation. some fairly heavy hitters, as a citizen with a keen interest in Dublin & Belfast being in the same timezone will be interesting to hear back!

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#155

Post by ghaff »

tgv wrote: post #121
riffic wrote: post #116

here's an idea - UTC everywhere

That's so utterly absurd. So now I know that it's also 20:00Z on the other side of the ocean. Great. But, are they awake at 20:00Z there? Or asleep? Let me subtract the time difference...

I think it's mostly a sentiment from people who don't travel--or don't really communicate with other timezones at all. I need to know that someone in Europe is about 5 or 6 hours ahead of me whether it's a timezone or an informal UTC offset. And if I'm traveling, while there are cultural differences between countries (e.g. later dinners in Spain), I know that the workday is something roughly 9-5 and dinner is roughly around 7pm.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#156

Post by Erratic6576 »

We need a two-tier schedule for businesses and institutions. Summer time and winter time. So, when authorities switch from CEST to CET or viceversa and clocks are adjusted an hour, schedules are inverted to leave things as they were according to the Sun.

So if after the switch you are supposed to start an hour earlier, you just start one hour later, thus starting at the same time according to the sun.

This might sound crazy but the craziness of making people switch clocks is evil and cruel

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#157

Post by HPsquared »

highmastdon wrote: post #32

We (Europe) shouldn't fragment time zones that much. We (NL) should stay on permanent summer time. Reasons - criminality is lower when there's longer light - earlier darkness leads to more accidents. It's better to have longer darkness after the masses are RESTED (in the morning), opposed to when they're TIRED (in the evening) - longer day-time for office workers, is more productive - shorter time of year that has lo…

Driving early in the morning (when compared to equal-darkness in the evening) has the extra risk factor of frost and ice, which both obscures vision and reduces grip. Those factors definitely contribute to accidents.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#159

Post by dudul »

switch007 wrote: post #107
closewith wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware of the accession path Ireland took and why it was linked to UK accession? Ireland has the highest level of pro-EU sentiment in the bloc and it is still more likely that we will leave than accept a timezone partition with the North. It's not in question. Failure to understand this is a complete failure to understand the country.

I am. What’s your point ? I know Ireland likes the riches that come with EU membership. They don’t want to return to being a poor country. It would be a time zone difference, not a partition. Let’s not used such loaded language. Edit: is the USA “partitioned” or any less united because of multiple timezones?

The US would definitely be more efficient with fewer timezones. Really we should find a way to remove at least one between the 2 coasts. United, no, but the US is not the EU. America is united by default, Europe divided.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#160

Post by anon84873628 »

xoa wrote: post #103
BurningFrog wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We legislate lots of things without consensus with 51-49 majorities. People in the past had a very different time environment. I used to have 1 watch. Now I have a dozen different clocks in my apartment. We also did not interact with other time zones nearly as much.

> We legislate lots of things without consensus with 51-49 majorities. We really do not in the US when it's a matter of genuine controversy. Once in a long while something gets forced through if the status quo is just unsustainable or it's a core plank issue or something, but the system isn't designed to allow anyone hitting 51 to easily pass anything contentious. And that's with your implicit take that there is a 51…

>Plus this isn't some inherently critical issue, for most people it's at most a minor irritation twice per year. For some it's a minor enjoyable, "free sleep".

I want to push back on this a bit. It's not just the moment of change itself, it's how wall time compares to the sun.

And the problem with that is business hours being stuck to wall time. Essentially the government controls how business hours relate to the sun, instead of expecting each entity to change their business hours with the seasons (or not) as desired. This goes back to the time when business hours posted on a door were much more important.

If you are stuck in a "9-5" job or otherwise are committed to what the clock says, the time change significantly controls your interaction with the sun.

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