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Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

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Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#151

Post by andylynch »

Obscurity4340 wrote: post #42
eropple wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't put a green bubble on SMS "to ostracize people's kids". Kids are ostracized just for having a default skin in Fortnite--because kids can be little shitheads. Apple differentiates because what you can do with SMS is different from what you can do with iMessage and that's a clear way to demonstrate it (and also to indicate if there's something weird going on when it changes from iMessage to SMS). RCS is a…

> what you can do is different Can you talk a bit more about how iMessage is fundamentally diferent than SMS on the functionality level? Is it like "Signal" different or is it like "different" different? Edit: bonus points if you can offer why iMessage is able to be the skeleton key into your iPhone, as often it and WebKit seem to be behind most of the serious 0-days...

Different like … totally. SMS was part of the very early GSM design work in the mid ‘80s and is built into the network at a fundamental level (this is why the particular character limit etc etc)- it was designed in the GSM/SS7/ telco world and has been used for over thirty years. iMessage was designed and built by Apple as a single operator with virtually total control of the backend and user devices. They achieve similar results in completely different ways, the best analogy I can think of is how octopus’s and jellyfish can see too, but evolved eyes very different to our own.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#152

Post by enragedcacti »

ronyeh wrote: post #43
eropple wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't put a green bubble on SMS "to ostracize people's kids". Kids are ostracized just for having a default skin in Fortnite--because kids can be little shitheads. Apple differentiates because what you can do with SMS is different from what you can do with iMessage and that's a clear way to demonstrate it (and also to indicate if there's something weird going on when it changes from iMessage to SMS). RCS is a…

But they pick an ugly shade of green though. I currently have an iPhone 15 Pro Max and have also used Android devices in the past. I like to switch each time I get a new phone. Apple definitely picks an ugly color to make you feel uncomfortable texting with a non iPhone user. They should at least let users choose the color (which will never happen).

> They should at least let users choose the color (which will never happen).

You can turn on high contrast mode in Messages settings which gives you a forest green color that's imo pretty nice to look at.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#153

Post by swozey »

freedomben wrote: post #131
swozey wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this is something way more talked about online than actually occurs IRL. I didn't get an iPhone until the 13 (2 years ago?) and I'm still on it. Nobody stopped talking to me because I had green bubbles throughout my, I dunno, 10-15 years of Android phones. They would make fun of me for how reactions (Bob laughs at $reply) looked on my screen but just friendly jabs. I am a millennial though.

I think the age does make a big difference. I'm about 40, and I've rarely heard this IRL among people near or older either. The people I've heard it from were mostly in their teens or early 20s. Some 30s and 40s have admitted to leaving friends or family out of group chats because they were on Android though. But that said, how do you know nobody stopped talking to you because of it? One of my friends (who is early 4…

Maybe I've been kept out of group chats, it is annoying group chatting an imessage thread with android in it. I forget what it does but something is strange about it, but I'd definitely remember if someone I remotely cared about talking to just ghosted my SMS one day. I can't think of that ever happening. I had tons of friends in my 20s and almost none of them ever used Android. It was mostly tech people I knew that used Android.

But, yeah, who knows. Probably nothing lost.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#154

Post by zitterbewegung »

no_wizard wrote: post #28

This is something I never thought I'd see. I hope the GSM association moves fast to make robust E2EE a standard required for proper implementation for carriers. That would go a long way in making a huge improvement over SMS/MMS. This is a win for RCS, ultimately. Maybe this will kick carriers into high gear to up their messaging standard support game and have standard interop. I don't think this will lead to a declin…

Can’t they support RCS but still have iPhone users blue ?

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#156

Post by threeseed »

freedomben wrote: post #90
whoopdedo wrote: post #62

Is there a sunset timeline for SMS? No service lasts forever and if Apple knows carriers will want to turn it off sometime they'd have to get on board with the RCS sooner rather than too late.

Apple is big enough that they could make the carriers keep SMS. If a carrier tried to remove it and break "compatibility" with the iPhone, Apple would block that carrier from having iPhones altogether, which would decimate that carriers business. So through a causative chain, Apple could force carriers to keep SMS.

a) Apple doesn't decide whether carriers keep SMS. Governments do.

b) Apple won't stop users from using a particular carrier because of commercial considerations. It would be a clear breach of anti-competition laws.

c) Many carriers don't have relationships with Apple to sell the iPhone. And in many places internationally the iPhone is not even that popular. What matters is whether you can buy a SIM and install it into your phone.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#157

Post by crop_rotation »

I have only used Android phones and I strongly dislike RCS. RCS in theory is a standard but in practice it is == "Google Messages" the app. I don't know of a single telco that supports it (hosting their own infra of it), nor does any other SMS app (maybe 1 or 2 being exception that proves the rule). RCS(Google Messages) is just another messaging app like Whatsapp/Signal just that it pretends being a standard. AFAIK AOSP has no RCS APIs like it has for SMS. Not to mention the amount of SPAM one gets on RCS is comparable only to traditional SMS, and blocking has no effect unlike Whatsapp. It exists mainly because Google got tired of making messaging apps that weren't dominating the world (Hangouts/Allo) and thought that forcing a standard might be the only option available to them. E2E is optional and there is no switch that says only do E2E.

There might be some solution needed to let iMessage interoperate with Android, but pretending RCS is a standard just like SMS that Apple was not supporting is wishful thinking.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#158

Post by greedo »

wolpoli wrote: post #71
alexb_ wrote: post #2

> This is not Apple opening up iMessage to other platforms. Instead, it’s the company adopting RCS separately from iMessage. Very important.

Speaking of opening up to other platforms due to Digital Markets Act: maybe we'll finally get FaceTime as an open industry standard at some point?

I thought Apple intended to do that but found out the a lot of the tech was patent-encumbered.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#159

Post by nilsherzig »

swozey wrote: post #127
lxgr wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was that really a concern in the US? WhatsApp and iMessage require data plans, and as far as I can remember these have largely included unlimited SMS as well. It was definitely a factor in the EU, though: SMS still aren't free on many prepaid plans there. WhatsApp was the first popular application supporting unlimited messaging on mobile phones for many.

I'm 39 and SMS not being unlimited was a huge thing. I never thought it would be unlimited, when that happened (Suncom? I forget who started it) it was huge. This was a LONG time ago though, long before WhatsApp. Probably 15-18 for me. I remember a lot of conversations in high school going "My plans maxed out can you text $friend?" IIRC you had to specifically turn off receiving texts or they'd charge you for each on…

I'm 21 and from Germany, I absolutely remember paying for sms in the first years of my highschool time.

I can also remember killing my data plan browsing Instagram while skipping my French class ... So about 7 years ago?

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#160

Post by Andrex »

throw0101a wrote: post #66
no_wizard wrote: post #28

This is something I never thought I'd see. I hope the GSM association moves fast to make robust E2EE a standard required for proper implementation for carriers. That would go a long way in making a huge improvement over SMS/MMS. This is a win for RCS, ultimately. Maybe this will kick carriers into high gear to up their messaging standard support game and have standard interop. I don't think this will lead to a declin…

> I hope the GSM association moves fast to make robust E2EE a standard required for proper implementation for carriers. That would go a long way in making a huge improvement over SMS/MMS. Can telcos actually offer E2EE given the various lawful intercept statutes that they are usually subject to?

I mean, they're doing it right now.

https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/google-messa...

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