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Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

sciencedirect.com

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Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#151

Post by derwiki »

jlbooker wrote: post #120
derwiki wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time an article like this went around, I decided to do the same thing with my Miele. The metal starting becoming stained pretty soon, and just recently I decided to switch to 7th Generation organic detergent powder. YMMV but wanted to share my anecdata for anyone considering the same.

How do you make "organic detergent"? Was it grown without synthetic pesticides, or...? I'm pretty skeptical of the word "organic" getting thrown around in marketing... so I'm really curious what makes a detergent qualify as organic.

Apologies, I got the USDA certification wording wrong: it is a USDA Certified Biobased Product.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#152

Post by saltcured »

NumberWangMan wrote: post #144
MichaelRo wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm self-administering (unwittingly) mild food poisoning pretty regularly because I can't throw away food, particularly food that I spent precious time on cooking it myself. Like a big pot of soup, some fried meat and whatever side dish like cooked cabbage. The idea is to spend the unpleasant cooking time once, put it all in the fridge then for a few days at least the whole effort is just to retrieve servings and hea…

The trick is to once every couple of days when it's starting to get to that point where it'll go bad soon, take it out, and re-cook it somehow to kill any bacteria. This could be tossing soup back on the stove, or microwaving veggies steaming hot. Also, it helps a lot to have strict sanitary standards for yourself, like always using a clean, fresh utensil to scoop out your servings. Or if you use the same one, start…

For soups and stews, a useful approach is transfer into smaller single-serving containers to freeze. Then you can take out one serving at a time to thaw and reheat while the rest can stay frozen for many weeks.

You just have to cool it first so you don't overload the freezer with too much energy at once. We cool the pot, then divide and refrigerate the smaller containers overnight before transferring to the freezer the next morning.

We put our whole soup pot into a cold water bath to rapidly cool it. When the water warms appreciably, drain and replace with cold water again. Sometimes we put ice or those sealed gel ice packs into the bath to really accelerate the process.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#154

Post by Turing_Machine »

r1ch wrote: post #13

From my understanding, this article is only about professional dishwashers used in restaurants and hotels etc. that use much higher concentrations and less rinsing than consumer dishwashers. They specifically mention that they could not repeat their findings on consumer dishwashers.

I knew a guy who had an ugly, painful ulcer on the top of his foot for a few months after dripping some liquid commercial dishwasher detergent on his sneaker while refilling the dispenser.

That stuff is nasty.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#155

Post by aequitas »

steveBK123 wrote: post #124
crazygringo wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is surprisingly hard to give yourself food poisoning if you cook for yourself. It's not hard at all if you're cooking chicken. All it can take is reusing the cutting board without washing. If you're careful about it, it's hard. But plenty of people aren't careful. They think the risk is "overblown", they assume salmonella in chicken is as rare as salmonella in eggs. This makes it pretty easy. And then they think…

At that point why not just lick raw chicken? I mean if you stick your finger in an electric socket you'll get hurt too. Just suggesting a basic level of hygiene.

Because there is a chance you don’t get sick because the particular chicken was not carrying the disease and even then, the cause and effect are split by some time. Whereas getting shocked by sticking something metal in a socket is almost a given and has a very short feedback loop.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#156

Post by chopin »

mathgeek wrote: post #9
danw1979 wrote: post #2

Get yourself a big old tub of anhydrous citric acid from Amazon or wherever, make up a 10% solution and use that in place of rinse aid. Just check with your dishwasher manufacturer that it’s not going to cause issues first. I got a new Miele unit a few months ago and the manual specifically advises the use of such a solution, with caution not to make it any stronger. It’s been working like a charm.

What are the advantages over plain vinegar? Been using that my whole life without any concern beyond wanting to avoid expensive rinse aids.

Vinegar is a solvent for many plastics.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#157

Post by jongjong »

poizan42 wrote: post #39
jongjong wrote: post #27

Interesting, my mother taught me to always rinse the soap off from my dishes thoroughly and look at that. Sometimes superstition is more useful than expert advice.

What's superstitious about that? Soap isn't made for human consumption, it seems prudent to avoid consumption unless proven safe.

I should have said 'half-baked theories' or 'unfounded beliefs' instead of 'superstition'. Sometimes it's hard to find the ideal word.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#159

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

r1ch wrote: post #13

From my understanding, this article is only about professional dishwashers used in restaurants and hotels etc. that use much higher concentrations and less rinsing than consumer dishwashers. They specifically mention that they could not repeat their findings on consumer dishwashers.

Did you do the 'sniff-test'? I did, and do again from time to time, when elsewhere. In my experience I can smell that stuff on the dishes and glassware, even after having cleaned them by hand before, and even after a second run without detergent. On every consumer dishwasher, so far.

That alone was reason for me to avoid them, since decades. And this hasn't changed. And I have no 'super-nose'(I think).

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#160

Post by 0x00_NULL »

r1ch wrote: post #13

From my understanding, this article is only about professional dishwashers used in restaurants and hotels etc. that use much higher concentrations and less rinsing than consumer dishwashers. They specifically mention that they could not repeat their findings on consumer dishwashers.

This is not correct. It is about all dishwashers, but professional ones seem to lack a cleansing cycle after rinse aid is applied, thus the concentration of resulting rinse aid is higher. A consumer dishwasher is also used in their tests, but the concentration was much less than the professional dishwasher - however, they tested with 20g of rinse aid and used assumptions of the number and volume of washing cycles from their test dishwasher. A deviation of 10% difference in since water could increase the concentration significantly, by a factor of ~2 or more depending on the final rinsing stage.

So, in their example, the results in consumer dishwashers fell in the 1:40,000 - 1:80,000 dilution range. But, that does not necessarily apply to a different brand of dishwasher with a different method of rinsing. A 10% savings in the rinse cycle water might move that ratio into the 1:20,000 - 1:40,000 range (which is within the range of having an significant effect). So, I interpret this as not dismissing of consumer dishwashers, but rather indicating more careful study is needed.

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