Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 275 posts

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#151

Post by trident5000 »

microtherion wrote: post #121
hashtag-til wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> How naive. All I have to go on is 20+ years of employment at Apple, including several years as a H1B and Green Card holder. Can't possibly compete with your sincerely held beliefs. > Citizens have also more rights and companies love to have these clause that make you get your head down and work no questions asked This is undoubtedly the case for some H1B employers, but Apple is not a body shop style operation. Firi…

Its naive to think expanding the labor pool wouldnt reduce labor costs. Its supply and demand/economics 101. And obviously they (and every other company) is going to complain they cant fill positions locally in order to gain access to this cheaper pool.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#152

Post by sangnoir »

ericye16 wrote: post #130
sangnoir wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not give them a path to a green card? Because it's illegal to (positively) discriminate for these people and shield them from competing with American citizens and GC-holders for jobs. > Why make the company jump through hoops like having to advertise a position that’s not actually open? As Apple just found out: creating a fake position to end-run immigration law is illegal.

I think the point is that immigration law should be changed so companies don't have to jump through hoops like this.

I too believe there has to be reform, but I also believe this is Apple being lazy/doing this for convenience.

If the individuals are more skilled than citizens, the Apple should have been prepared to open the interviews for those jobs to everyone (including citizens and permanent residents), selected the (person they knew to have been) the best and gotten the paperwork in order. The subterfuge would be completely unnecessary if they applied under the correct visa class and skills of those involved are as advertised.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#155

Post by umeshunni »

landemva wrote: post #98
JAlexoid wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah.... Except that this is not true. There's not enough talent in US, so we have to seek elsewhere. American graduates have these starry eyes and want to work mostly in two types of companies FAANG or early stage startups... Who's going to go to work at pharma companies, banks, electric companies?

> There's not enough talent in US The hiring pool could be larger, but HR and hiring managers don't want men over 50.

Yeah, I'm sure there are a ton of programmers over 50.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#157

Post by kbenson »

ipaddr wrote: post #129
microtherion wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How naive. All I have to go on is 20+ years of employment at Apple, including several years as a H1B and Green Card holder. Can't possibly compete with your sincerely held beliefs. > Citizens have also more rights and companies love to have these clause that make you get your head down and work no questions asked This is undoubtedly the case for some H1B employers, but Apple is not a body shop style operation. Firi…

"I thought that Satya Nadella, Sundar Pichai, or Betrand Serlet were not really hired for their pliability but because they were genuinely qualified" You lost me at this point. Many more qualified less pliable candidates exist but neither are the reason for their hiring. In general the most qualified person rarely gets the position. The easiest to bend is usually what power seeks.

What's with people in this thread spouting absolutes as if they aren't obviously full of obvious mistakes and rebuttals?

"Power" also seeks competence. There's no one aspect that is sought is enough to to drown out all the others when hiring, at least not without an outside force requiring it.

Do employers want employees that are easy to deal with? Obviously. Is that more important then skill and ability? It depends not only on the employer, but also probably the job being hired for, but nobody wants to hire an unqualified candidate over a qualified one.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#158

Post by theGnuMe »

ericye16 wrote: post #130
sangnoir wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not give them a path to a green card? Because it's illegal to (positively) discriminate for these people and shield them from competing with American citizens and GC-holders for jobs. > Why make the company jump through hoops like having to advertise a position that’s not actually open? As Apple just found out: creating a fake position to end-run immigration law is illegal.

I think the point is that immigration law should be changed so companies don't have to jump through hoops like this.

They are not supposed to jump through hoops. They created these positions, did not advertise them externally like other jobs the solicit for nor accept electronic submissions. You know those job notices in some random “break room” stapled to the notification board? That’s what this is and why they got nailed.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#159

Post by Racing0461 »

ericye16 wrote: post #130
sangnoir wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not give them a path to a green card? Because it's illegal to (positively) discriminate for these people and shield them from competing with American citizens and GC-holders for jobs. > Why make the company jump through hoops like having to advertise a position that’s not actually open? As Apple just found out: creating a fake position to end-run immigration law is illegal.

I think the point is that immigration law should be changed so companies don't have to jump through hoops like this.

Canada did that. Obliterated their white collar job market. Worked out well for every one but the canadian born worker.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#160

Post by Racing0461 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #150
User23 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the notion that I was taking the job of a native-born American was ridiculous because I had been doing the job in London before. This isn’t even wrong. Obviously you displaced a US citizen unless you’re trying to advance the risible position that no US citizen could do what you do.

Many engineering teams hire the good people they can find. If one quits, nothing says you'll find another one, and you may keep going with one less person.

Unpopular opinion that throws a wrench into the whole h1b/eb1/eb2 debate. Being a rando sde (even at faang) isn't specialized. We have tpms getting eb1c (the einstein gc) which has now been backlogged for good reason. I think any loosening on h1bs/ebxs etc should coincide with the upping of the requirements to the o1 visa - https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary... but even this can be gamed.
Post reply on HN