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Maersk to cut 10k jobs as shipping demand drops

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Re: Maersk to cut 10k jobs as shipping demand drops

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then hire year-by-year (or 6-month by 6-month) contractors with the explicit understanding that they're being hired to cover a surge that they expect to end, and that their contract will not be renewed after it ends.

Why should they? In what world would that be better than continuous employment as long as needed, for either the company or the employees? (The good times usually last longer than just one year.) More to the point: Why do you think you have the right to tell them how they should structure their employment practices? Why do you think the entire economy should be restructured to match your preferences? I agree with mak…

You know, I was going to respond with my thoughts, and then I realized they mostly applied to the United States. In a country with guaranteed off ramp/severance pay, most of my concerns are significantly less relevant. That being said...

More to the point: Why do you think you have the right to tell them how they should structure their employment practices? Why do you think the entire economy should be restructured to match your preferences?

Of course I have the self awareness to recognize that I'm just a random guy sitting on the couch supplying my 2¢ on the employment practices of an enormous corporation in a different country. But I assume that's not what you're talking about, since a fundamental conceit of Hacker News (and, frankly, most of the internet) is that random anonymous people bored at work or at home with vastly varying competence, understanding, and reasoning are free to indulge their hubris and make broad, sweeping judgements well outside their own domains, safe in the knowledge that they have zero power to actually enact those judgements.

So that makes the question more "Why should the public have any interest or say in the business decisions of a private corporation?" And if we don't already see eye-to-eye on that, I very much doubt that we will, since it tends to be a very baked in opinion.

Re: Maersk to cut 10k jobs as shipping demand drops

#152
post #94
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are you suggesting they should not have hired those workers, and left that customer demand stay unsatisfied, with all the knock-on consequences for workers in other sectors? These kinds of policies just lead to ossification of the economy. We need dynamic, responsive economies that can adapt to conditions, and we need strong protections for worker's rights and support for citizens through economic adjustments. The…

> We need dynamic, responsive economies that can adapt to conditions, and we need strong protections for worker's rights and support for citizens through economic adjustments. So let's talk about those generous amounts of taxes that were paid by Maersk lately...

They paid nothing in comparison to normal companies.

Re: Maersk to cut 10k jobs as shipping demand drops

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they? In what world would that be better than continuous employment as long as needed, for either the company or the employees? (The good times usually last longer than just one year.) More to the point: Why do you think you have the right to tell them how they should structure their employment practices? Why do you think the entire economy should be restructured to match your preferences? I agree with mak…

You know, I was going to respond with my thoughts, and then I realized they mostly applied to the United States. In a country with guaranteed off ramp/severance pay, most of my concerns are significantly less relevant. That being said... More to the point: Why do you think you have the right to tell them how they should structure their employment practices? Why do you think the entire economy should be restructured t…

Good point that Denmark isn't the US. I also was thinking from a US point of view. I don't know what the rules are in Denmark. That said, Maersk is very international. Unless their layoffs were all in Denmark, they won't all be covered by the same set of rules.

Your long paragraph: Well, yeah, you and me both. And well said.

But on your last paragraph, I probably agree with you more than you expect. The public has a definite interest in such things.

Where we differ (and it seems like a small difference, at least to me) is that I see nothing wrong with hiring people for the duration of a temporary increase in demand, as long as they know up front that that's the deal. For those willing to take that deal, and companies willing to give it, I see no need for the government to prevent it.

Re: Maersk to cut 10k jobs as shipping demand drops

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then they should have hired contractors for the specific timeframe, no? No. Knowing that the downturn is inevitably coming (because it always does) is not the same as knowing when the downturn is coming. That means the outrage in your last paragraph is rather misplaced.

Then hire year-by-year (or 6-month by 6-month) contractors with the explicit understanding that they're being hired to cover a surge that they expect to end, and that their contract will not be renewed after it ends.

Depending on the country, hiring for 6 month, 1 year, permanent, etc is extremely regulated. There is very little leeway or choice to the company ... aside from hiring outside that country.

Re: Maersk to cut 10k jobs as shipping demand drops

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I was going to respond with my thoughts, and then I realized they mostly applied to the United States. In a country with guaranteed off ramp/severance pay, most of my concerns are significantly less relevant. That being said... More to the point: Why do you think you have the right to tell them how they should structure their employment practices? Why do you think the entire economy should be restructured t…

Good point that Denmark isn't the US. I also was thinking from a US point of view. I don't know what the rules are in Denmark. That said, Maersk is very international. Unless their layoffs were all in Denmark, they won't all be covered by the same set of rules. Your long paragraph: Well, yeah, you and me both. And well said. But on your last paragraph, I probably agree with you more than you expect. The public has a…

Honestly, last paragraph, I was assuming you agreed with me in general, just wanted to note that even if you didn't there was little point in expanding.

Re: Maersk to cut 10k jobs as shipping demand drops

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They hired in response to heightened demand. Demand falls, and they should be fired for miscalculated headcount? Sorry, but that hardly makes sense…you might as well say management must be able to see the future.

Maybe they could cut everyone’s hours and keep more people employed? This would make surging to meet future demand spikes much more easy. Novel idea I know.

Cutting hours isn't going to be a viable option when you're also cutting their pay.

There are plenty of people who simply can't afford to stay at a company when their pay is being cut by 10% or more. They need pretty much all of their salary to pay bills. Taking such a pay cut is only an option for the higher incomes, where there is some jiggle room due to significant discretionary income.

Re: Maersk to cut 10k jobs as shipping demand drops

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you can expect companies to a buffer. It starts by questioning layoffs like this. Because they should have depleted the buffer first before layoffs. If after that layoffs still happen the gov should have a second layer of supports in place. Because indeed like you said if a whole sector has a downturn its difficult for someone to find a new job.

What is the economic rationale behind a company keeping a large portion of its workforce idle? That's a waste of labor. Sure, it's probably a good idea to keep people paid for a while after layoffs to ease their transition to an in-demand job. But that's what unemployment benefits do.

What is a waste and to whom? The employees still get paid, so they get the main value they signed up for. A bigger waste would be loss of income and security for these employees.

So its a waste for the bottom line of the company owners? Thats what 100 people max? Compared to 10.000 jobs and livelihoods lost its pretty clear to me.

Re: Maersk to cut 10k jobs as shipping demand drops

#160

> Danish shipping giant Maersk has posted earnings before interest and taxes (EBIT) of $30.9bn for the full year ended 31 December 2022, a 57% surge from $19.6bn in 2021. > This is said to be the firm’s best-ever annual result. https://www.ship-technology.com/news/maersk-logs-record-prof... Really sad to see these companies make enormous record beating profits then months later do mass layoffs just to maintain better…

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