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YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

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Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#151

Post by fluoridation »

iooi wrote: post #119
hau wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you're right about initial value proposition, but it doesn't seem odd to me at all. There are other things about treating youtube as netflix/hbo/hulu: - I can't upload random video to the netflix, and I have a certain expectation regarding content there - 99% of videos on youtube are not something I would pay for or expected to be paid for uploading - I can pay for youtube subscription and would still get…

I love how there's a perfect counter to every single point you posted. It seems like some people just want to hate. > - I can't upload random video to the netflix, and I have a certain expectation regarding content there That's a bug, not a feature. You're basically restricted to the tastes of Netflix's buyers. > - 99% of videos on youtube are not something I would pay for or expected to be paid for uploading Then yo…

>Then you're watching the wrong videos.

Re-read the sentence you're replying to. "99% of videos on youtube", not "99% of videos I watch".

>You can easily skip these, not sure what the issue is here.

You can also ad-block. The issue is that even paying for YouTube isn't enough to not see any ads on YouTube.

>Additionally, there has never been a greater investment made on storing and distributing video like the one Google made on YouTube.

YouTube merely provides the logistical support. It's not a production company. That is, it doesn't seek out talent to produce content for it. This is the difference the GP is highlighting.

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#152

Post by verdverm »

yifanl wrote: post #68
itsoktocry wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can pay for some unrelated product that's named Youtube Premium What do you mean "unrelated"? For the price of your Spotify subscription, you get an YouTube Music and ad-free YouTube. Seems like a good value prop. I'm a subscriber.

I mean unrelated as in unrelated, I, nor anybody have I talked to want a Youtube Music subscription or yet another podcast app.

I recently left Spotify because their web app makes my monitors flicker when it gains focus and they inserted ads into podcasts. What am I paying for with Spotify if not ad removal, just like YT?

I actually bumped my YT plan to family and put my parents on it. They didn't know about ad free YT, now they don't know how they went without it.

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#153

Post by TremendousJudge »

endisneigh wrote: post #92

At the end of the day people just don’t want to pay: ad blockers, piracy, etc. Of course people will whine when you stop them from getting stuff for free.

Google created the youtube "moat" by giving away the service for free for 15 years. In that time, an actually good, sustainable, paid video service could have emerged and everybody would be ok with it. Instead we got current Youtube, with its inescrutable algorithmic feed, content restrictions, and demonetization rules, and Google are asking us to pay for that with the argument that nothing else like it exists. Of course it doesn't, it couldn't exist since free Youtube was in the way.

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#154

Post by falcolas »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #15

It strikes me as so odd that people readily pay for netflix, hulu, HBO etc, but when the idea of paying for youtube comes along, who directly profit shares with small creators you adore, people fall over backwards in disgust. I guess it has to do with initial value proposition. If you hand out lemonade for free, people are going to be pissed when you start charging a dollar, regardless of how good of a deal it is. Ev…

I've been paying for premium for years now - at least 6 years. I think the problem for me now, and why I'm canceling it shortly, is their push to raise the price by 40% in the coming months. The value for that new price is just not there.

Some of that is due to my own changing habits, but even more of it comes from the content creators I follow in the gaming space being serially demonetized thanks to overly sensitive advertisers. So even though I'm trying to pay to support the content I watch, my money isn't going to the right creators.

As such, even at the seemingly reasonable $14 every month... it's no longer worth it.

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#155

Post by lacoolj »

"Help us pay for the services we provide or don't use them"

Why is this a strange message for everyone to digest? Ads pay for the content you watch, or your subscription fee covers it. Getting mad at the ad-blocking avoidance is like getting mad you can't walk into Disney Land without a park pass.

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#156

Post by huehehue »

slimsag wrote: post #109
LightHugger wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The endgame here is adblockers that spoof ad views and even sometimes clicks rather than just blocking them. This is very very bad for google if they force adblockers to work like that. People will do it.

Another possible endgame is all YouTube videos are livestreams and you cannot skip on the timeline, with ads inserted directly into the stream. In that world, the best an adblocker would be able to do is show a blank screen for 30s while it waits for the real video's frames to resume.

> all YouTube videos are livestreams and you cannot skip on the timeline, with ads inserted directly into the stream.

So we really are back to reinventing cable TV

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#157

Post by snerbles »

HlessClaudesman wrote: post #98
gretch wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe that we have been fortunate that Google's ad business was willing to subsidize it for us for so long with so little required in return. Unfortunately it appears that possibly the screws are getting turned, and there is less appetite for the subsidy. Um well no. They still have appetite to support the business with Ads (and they offer a paid version if you don't like Ads). The thing they no longer have app…

Am I breaching Yotube's TOS if I look away and / or mute their ads? No. So what's the difference If I automate that? Plenty of people won't, and they will still make money. Google can't force people to watch their ads, unless they hold us down and pry open our eyelids, A Clockwork Orange style. Shit, I shouldn't have given our digital overlords any ideas.

Please drink verification can to continue.

https://imgur.com/dgGvgKF

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#158

Post by conradfr »

itsoktocry wrote: post #44
yifanl wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can't pay for Youtube. You can pay for a bundle of some mostly unrelated products that's named Youtube Premium, or you can live with an insanely degraded product experience on Youtube, but you can't pay for Youtube.

> You can pay for some unrelated product that's named Youtube Premium What do you mean "unrelated"? For the price of your Spotify subscription, you get an YouTube Music and ad-free YouTube. Seems like a good value prop. I'm a subscriber.

Youtube Premium is more expansive than Spotify Premium.

You can still think it's a good deal though.

It could maybe even be considered anti-competitive to bundle Youtube and Youtube Music as the only option.

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#159

Post by lamontcg »

mentalpiracy wrote: post #49
Workaccount2 wrote: post #15

It strikes me as so odd that people readily pay for netflix, hulu, HBO etc, but when the idea of paying for youtube comes along, who directly profit shares with small creators you adore, people fall over backwards in disgust. I guess it has to do with initial value proposition. If you hand out lemonade for free, people are going to be pissed when you start charging a dollar, regardless of how good of a deal it is. Ev…

Google destroying goodwill with a low-effort rent seeking agenda, after years of effort to extinguish real competiton. Giving money to Google for programmatic ads ≠ funding creators. Most creators are small and don’t make any real money from YT anymore, and every year fewer and fewer are willing to endure the infinite mystery box of YT moderation and contentID policy.

Yeah, if it wasn't run by Google, I'd be more likely to pay for it.

And paying for it will result in most of my money going to Google and asshats like xQc even though I'd never willingly watch one of his videos and barely know who he is.

And I've watched the algorithm wreck some youtube channels that I used to enjoy as the creators chase after revenue.

(Not to mention that the ads that Google shows are fucking awful)

Re: YouTube's 'War' on Adblockers Shows How Google Controls the Internet

#160

Post by babypuncher »

iooi wrote: post #119
hau wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you're right about initial value proposition, but it doesn't seem odd to me at all. There are other things about treating youtube as netflix/hbo/hulu: - I can't upload random video to the netflix, and I have a certain expectation regarding content there - 99% of videos on youtube are not something I would pay for or expected to be paid for uploading - I can pay for youtube subscription and would still get…

I love how there's a perfect counter to every single point you posted. It seems like some people just want to hate. > - I can't upload random video to the netflix, and I have a certain expectation regarding content there That's a bug, not a feature. You're basically restricted to the tastes of Netflix's buyers. > - 99% of videos on youtube are not something I would pay for or expected to be paid for uploading Then yo…

I think the DMCA issue is a problem with both the US legal system and YouTube. A big part of it is the fact that YouTube makes it way too easy for supposed rightsholders to automatically DMCA any videos they want, and don't provide a reasonable process for clearing false claims. Their own system for detecting things like copyrighted music also makes no attempt to account for fair use, treating even a 5 second snippet of a popular song as if it was the whole thing.
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