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macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

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Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#151

Post by pmarreck »

postmodest wrote: post #129
wannacboatmovie wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EFI config screens should be text mode only, full-stop. So they can easily be used over serial console redirection. Ran into one recently that was high-rez graphical. It needed a USB mouse to change critical settings because the tab order for the onscreen widgets didn't work. Anyone responsible for creating graphical EFI config screens should stop writing software for the good of humanity.

Real boot loaders have embedded Forth interpreters!

Do Macs still have this?

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#152

Post by cesarb »

bscphil wrote: post #131
coldtea wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the "/troll"? You're 100% right non-ironically: the problem being that on Linux the need to consult forum posts to fix these kind of issues is way more frequent than in macOS.

By the standard of "do you ever need to consult forum posts to solve a problem", sure, Linux is worse than macOS. By the standard of "do you ever need to consult forum posts to fix hardware that has apparently been bricked by a software update", macOS seems to be considerably worse. At least, that's my experience. I've never had hardware damaged by Linux, which I've run almost exclusively. On the other hand the one A…

> I've never had hardware damaged by Linux, which I've run almost exclusively. [...] I can't say I've heard of that happening to people on Linux at all other than maybe early days of Xorg.

There was that LG CD-ROM drive which treated a CD-RW command (which it should ignore or reject since it's not a CD-RW drive) as a firmware upload command. When a newer Linux kernel started using that command, these drives got bricked (source: https://lwn.net/Articles/55537/ and https://web.archive.org/web/20041204072839/http://www.mandra...).

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#153

Post by cirrus3 »

First I've heard of any issues.. I have done a couple upgrades already with no issue. I'm sure there are some scenarios where it fails, but Sonoma has been out a while with millions of users being prompted constantly to upgrade. Feels like less than a "you're holding it wrong" problem. HN is obv going to bring out the edge cases, but it doesn't seem like the world is on fire with "Sonoma Bricks" by any means.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#155

Post by cirrus3 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #78
krackers wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple still hasn't put up any official page about the issue though, nor does it appear they've pulled the update. Even if it missed QA, why haven't they made any official comment?

You clearly don't know Apple as a company. Last most big companies, they never EVER publicly admit any faults or mistakes with their products (unless forced to by large scale fiascos) because that would damage their perfect brand image. It's why they have comments disabled on all their social media accounts.

Maybe because it isn't that big of an issue? Have you heard about this anywhere besides HN? If it were a big deal you know all the websites would be all over it as if the Mac were doomed.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#156

Post by samcat116 »

neilalexander wrote: post #3

Interestingly I ran into this exact problem with my work MacBook Pro M1 upgrading to Ventura 13.6 and assumed it was a totally isolated incident. I don't have a dual-boot setup either, just a single macOS install. The computer was connected to a Thunderbolt Display during the update which I assume had the same effect of changing the refresh rate to something other-than-ProMotion that the linked article mentions. I ha…

I've done this several times with a TB3 cable. Has to be the right port for DFU.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#157

Post by astrange »

ddalex wrote: post #60
wmf wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good UEFI like Surface devices is native resolution so you can have flicker-free boot. My Gigabyte motherboard recently got native resolution with a UEFI update.

I don't understand why modeset causes flicker - fade to black, turn off screen, change resolution, turn on screen, fade to image.

Because most modeset protocols/implementations aren't atomic, so some frames are drawn halfway through setting the mode.

Turning off the screen can take a long time, but it is possible that putting up a "hot black" screen would be better than flicker if you had to do it.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#158

Post by astrange »

tpmx wrote: post #88
pb7 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bug...

It's a device bricking bug. For a $2.5-10k device.

Brick usually means unfixable without an EEPROM replacement or data loss.

It's not possible (well, it's very difficult) to do this on an Apple Silicon Mac; once there's an update you can always apply it from another Mac, like the steps on this page do, and your data is still there. With Intel Macs it's possible.

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#159

Post by doubloon »

asylteltine wrote: post #14

I’m an apple fanboy and let me be the first to say their SDLC since the pandemic has been AWFUL. I have never had so many bugs with apple devices. And I’m not talking about giant catastrophic bugs you would expect with windows or Linux. I mean little things, like random phone reboots, overheating, my mac restarting when I wake up from sleep, internet issues, etc. They need a shake up and to stop focusing on all these…

" . . . The new version - it's not there to fix bugs. That's not the reason we come up with a new version. " - Bill Gates

http://www.cantrip.org/nobugs.html

Re: macOS Sonoma Boot Failures

#160

Post by markmark »

gcr wrote: post #2

TL;DR: Recent macOS Sonoma and 13.6 Ventura have upgrade bugs that brick some macs and make recoveryOS unusable, causing a black screen that requires a DFU revive. Issues on Sonoma appear most often on dual-booting macs: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208891 Ventura upgrades can also bite you if your display refresh rate is set to anything other than ProMotion, for unclear reasons. The doc is on the Asahi Linux wi…

Erg, I ran into this on my mac twice when I upgraded. I have two bootable OSX partitions and it hit on both upgrades. I'm not really a mac guy and it took a _lot_ of messing around (and learning that DFU exists and what it does) to sort out. Just lucky that my daughter has a mac so that I could even use DFU without having to take the thing into an apple store.
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