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Migrating our backend from Vercel to Fly.io

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Re: Migrating our backend from Vercel to Fly.io

#151

Post by rozenmd »

ushakov wrote: post #142
hipadev23 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s for an app which sends a ping to a URL every x minutes… My bigger question is: How the fuck do these companies keep getting created? There's gotta be more uptime-monitor SaaS companies than todo MVC demos in existence.

Because these people are bad businessmen. There is not a single reason yet another uptime monitoring business needs to exist. They have no chance at succeeding the likes of Datadog, New Relic. Conclusion: promising builders being bad at startups

Who says they have to reach Datadog/New Relic scale to "succeed"?

Re: Migrating our backend from Vercel to Fly.io

#152

Post by junon »

meiraleal wrote: post #149
aurareturn wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started using Next.js in 2017. It made React a real production framework. Prior to Next.js, React was hard to setup and maintain and hard to make it go fast (on first load). Next.js solved the worst React problems. I don't think it ruined React at all. I think it helped React gain in popularity - which you might interpret as "destruction".

> Prior to Next.js, React was hard to setup and maintain No, it wasn't. Now it is an engineering process. > I started using Next.js in 2017. It made React a real production framework In 2017 I had React projects in production for years. > React was hard to setup and maintain and hard to make it go fast (on first load) And it only got worse and the overengineering to make it looks fast in the first load is not worth i…

> In 2017 I had React projects in production for years.

I doubt that. React wasn't stable until 2015, and wasn't mainstream until 2016.

> And it only got worse and the overengineering to make it looks fast in the first load is not worth it as modern JS frameworks are faster than React out-of-the-box.

Again, Next.js != React; the former builds on the latter, it doesn't replace it nor does it claim to be the same thing. I'm not sure why you keep conflating the two.

> That's not what stackoverflow's Insights says[0]. Looks like a free fall for me.

Perhaps you shouldn't bury the lede here. I'm also not entirely sure what your argument is, or why you hold such strong emotions without making your opinions very clear.

https://insights.stackoverflow.com/trends?tags=reactjs%2Cnex...

Re: Migrating our backend from Vercel to Fly.io

#153

Post by meiraleal »

junon wrote: post #152
meiraleal wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prior to Next.js, React was hard to setup and maintain No, it wasn't. Now it is an engineering process. > I started using Next.js in 2017. It made React a real production framework In 2017 I had React projects in production for years. > React was hard to setup and maintain and hard to make it go fast (on first load) And it only got worse and the overengineering to make it looks fast in the first load is not worth i…

> In 2017 I had React projects in production for years. I doubt that. React wasn't stable until 2015, and wasn't mainstream until 2016. > And it only got worse and the overengineering to make it looks fast in the first load is not worth it as modern JS frameworks are faster than React out-of-the-box. Again, Next.js != React; the former builds on the latter, it doesn't replace it nor does it claim to be the same thing…

> I doubt that. React wasn't stable until 2015, and wasn't mainstream until 2016.

I started using React before its 1.0 version. Your reasoning is exactly what's wrong with Vercel. Arrogant inexperienced people that think they know better, empowered by VC money. Together with some idealization of being the smartest people around makes you come with solutions like "use server" and throw tantrums when people say this is stupid for a frontend library.

> Again, Next.js != React; the former builds on the latter, it doesn't replace it nor does it claim to be the same thing. I'm not sure why you keep conflating the two.

It is okay if you can't understand what I'm saying, it is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. I also don't expect you to agree that the work you did contributed to an open source take-over for the sake of profit.

Edit: I just did a research to see if Meta is adopting the amazing "use server" and no public information is available, only people discussing that they aren't. That says a lot about the applicability of this feature and the direction React is being leaded to.

Re: Migrating our backend from Vercel to Fly.io

#154

Post by OJFord »

OJFord wrote: post #124
Swizec wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s an idiom that means I never want to do this again. Even if I waited an infinite amount of time, it would still be too soon to have to write httpd.conf or nginx.conf files again. https://hinative.com/questions/337452

I'm a native English speaker, I'm well aware of the (misused here) idiom. You could also have said 'ever' instead of 'never', that would be a simpler and better fix on re-reading.

Huh, what was I smoking? I don't even smoke. That's not right, don't know what I was thinking, sorry!

Re: Migrating our backend from Vercel to Fly.io

#155

Post by aurareturn »

meiraleal wrote: post #153
junon wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In 2017 I had React projects in production for years. I doubt that. React wasn't stable until 2015, and wasn't mainstream until 2016. > And it only got worse and the overengineering to make it looks fast in the first load is not worth it as modern JS frameworks are faster than React out-of-the-box. Again, Next.js != React; the former builds on the latter, it doesn't replace it nor does it claim to be the same thing…

> I doubt that. React wasn't stable until 2015, and wasn't mainstream until 2016. I started using React before its 1.0 version. Your reasoning is exactly what's wrong with Vercel. Arrogant inexperienced people that think they know better, empowered by VC money. Together with some idealization of being the smartest people around makes you come with solutions like "use server" and throw tantrums when people say this is…

I was a tech lead and managed a massive project (multiple billions of page views per year) that did a complete rewrite with React in 2014-2015.

React was complete shit back then - especially the first load speed. It was not ready for "real" production. We basically built an internal framework on top of React for things like server side rendering (which no one did with React back then), above the fold loading optimization, developer experience, devOps on top of React. We basically built Next.js internally.

So no. It was not production ready for real performance-based websites. Next.js made it significantly better as soon as it came out.

Re: Migrating our backend from Vercel to Fly.io

#156

Post by meiraleal »

aurareturn wrote: post #155
meiraleal wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I doubt that. React wasn't stable until 2015, and wasn't mainstream until 2016. I started using React before its 1.0 version. Your reasoning is exactly what's wrong with Vercel. Arrogant inexperienced people that think they know better, empowered by VC money. Together with some idealization of being the smartest people around makes you come with solutions like "use server" and throw tantrums when people say this is…

I was a tech lead and managed a massive project (multiple billions of page views per year) that did a complete rewrite with React in 2014-2015. React was complete shit back then - especially the first load speed. It was not ready for "real" production. We basically built an internal framework on top of React for things like server side rendering (which no one did with React back then), above the fold loading optimiza…

React was a terrible idea for a static page in 2014-2015 and is an even worse idea for a static SSR page + hydration in 2023. React back in 2014 was devised to be a performant way to create SPAs. Of course it wouldn't be good to use it as if it was PHP. It is still a bad idea.

Re: Migrating our backend from Vercel to Fly.io

#157

Post by steve_adams_86 »

danpalmer wrote: post #24
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #7

Unreliable deployments are my experience as well. I also encountered unexpected and unannounced downtimes surprisingly often. I was excited about fly, but ended up sticking with digitalocean. I have only had one issue with deployment reliability there (when they changed their build tooling for Python applications on the apps platform), but they responded quickly with a fix and shortly after announced the change and p…

At my last place we ran into a number of issues with using DO in production. It was fine for dev machines, testing, etc, but we had production downtime due to DO's networking setup, and support were unable to understand the problem, let alone fix it. Quick summary: we backed up our other prod hosting to DO over SSH. One day our backups went offline, DO claimed this was because of a DDoS attack, but our backups were w…

Wow, that’s exceptionally unhelpful. It hasn’t been my experience, but this mirrors my experience with fly. I guess we’re never safe, haha.

I’ve had several projects of varying complexity running with excellent uptime, both on the apps platform and on plain old droplets, for longer than I can say with certainty. Close to 8 years I guess. I might just be lucky, but in that time I really can only remember the one unexpected outage.

Re: Migrating our backend from Vercel to Fly.io

#158

Post by stavros »

globalise83 wrote: post #129
OJFord wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 'beyond the level of inadequacy' which is amusingly ambiguous!

They reliably exceed 99.99% inadequacy overachievement - there, made it less ambiguous for you.

Yes, but exceed which way?

Re: Migrating our backend from Vercel to Fly.io

#159

Post by recroad »

tibozaurus wrote: post #136
recroad wrote: post #45

I have been using Vercel for production NextJS apps and have been very satisfied.

We are too but for a simple REST API it might not be the best

No, probably not. I use it for NextJS hosting and I absolutely love the page invalidation. It probably has saved me thousands in server costs.

Re: Migrating our backend from Vercel to Fly.io

#160

Post by ushakov »

rozenmd wrote: post #151
ushakov wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because these people are bad businessmen. There is not a single reason yet another uptime monitoring business needs to exist. They have no chance at succeeding the likes of Datadog, New Relic. Conclusion: promising builders being bad at startups

Who says they have to reach Datadog/New Relic scale to "succeed"?

You’re right. I will take it back. Was just upset
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