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Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

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Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#151

Post by master-lincoln »

Vaslo wrote: post #118
gizmo wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every employee is a good negotiator. And poor negotiators get underpaid in a market system even when they are great at their job. Unions fix this market inefficiency by having good negotiators act on their behalf.

The company doesn’t pay for the increased cost though. I pay as a consumer. What do I get in return, especially since I’m not in nor have any interest in joining one?

Consumers don't get anything. This is not about them. This is about workers making sure to be treated fairly and using their power (the collective productivity they stand for) to bargain better conditions with employers.

How else do you want to balance out the power distribution?

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#152

Post by kriro »

For another perspective, in Germany, if you are an elected representative of the workers (Personalrat) you have special protection against being laid off during your term. It's basically impossible (technically it is but it never happens and the requirements are very strict). There's pros and cons to this of course.

These are not the union bargainers though but rather the people who represent workers' interest in the company (they need to sign off on contract changes etc.). The bargainers are usually working for the union and not a company.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#153

Post by qwery »

> Songtradr had no access to union membership information and we executed our employment offer process with full-consideration of all legal requirements

I know this won't be a popular thing to say, but I'd like to take a moment to thank Songtradr for consulting their lawyers and full-considering all legal requirements.

I believe them when they say they didn't legally acquire the union's documentation on membership. But they "carried out a comprehensive, full company evaluation that involved a detailed examination of each role" and seem pretty anal about their legal requirements. It's become expected that a prospective employee's social media accounts will be "evaluated" as part of the hiring process, so I imagine that was the case here, too. (Do you think any of the union members, the union-curious or even the anti-union weirdos ever mentioned the union on twitter?)

It goes on to explain that the "evaluation considered several factors such as product groups, job functions, employee tenure, performance evaluations[0]," and amusingly "the importance of roles for smooth business operations".

[0] performance evaluations were just one of several factors evaluated (comprehensively) in the detailed examination during the full company evaluation

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#155

Post by kundi »

Applejinx wrote: post #148
kundi wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I apologize if this got transmitted in the inappropriate form. Could you share your perspective on what would be the most productive terms for the independent musicians and what all would you expect them to entail?

If you have to ask, you should not be doing this.

Honestly, sometimes I wonder that too... since most independent musicians are broke and underappreciated, it might be better to start a crypto project..

But there is still little hope (I hope)

https://formaviva.com/khoros-records/f-h-l-rmxs

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#156

Post by MichaelZuo »

oblio wrote: post #128
0xpgm wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the very least, for the sake of optics, they shouldn't have fired the union reps. Not all of them anyway. We're all making assumptions here, but let's assume they had legitimate business reasons for the layoffs. What you suggest is that they make less optimal decisions for the sake of optics. In a free-market economy, the companies that make less optimal decisions will have their lunch eaten by those that don't.

> In a free-market economy, the companies that make less optimal decisions will have their lunch eaten by those that don't. When the downfall of some of these companies takes more than a life time, who gives a hoot? Lots and lots of companies are starting to be too big to (fully) fail.

It's the end consumer that has to pay for every extra bit of overhead accumulated along the way.

And the bill isn't delayed by a lifetime either.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#157

Post by mftrhu »

baggy_trough wrote: post #86
onion2k wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being sold a job working for a specific salary at 40 hours a week, and then being told to work 80+ hours a week without overtime in order to keep your job, and having all trace of your work removed from the credits if you leave. That's how the games industry works.

If you don't like it, refuse to do it, and maybe they'll fire you. Or, if you're OK with it, then do it. I don't really see where the exploitation comes in.

Or you could get together with your colleagues - unionize - and leverage the threat of leaving work en masse to negotiate better working conditions.

Why should people just have to leave the industry they have trained for because of the pigheadedness of their wannabe employers?

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#158

Post by creshal »

qwery wrote: post #153

> Songtradr had no access to union membership information and we executed our employment offer process with full-consideration of all legal requirements I know this won't be a popular thing to say, but I'd like to take a moment to thank Songtradr for consulting their lawyers and full-considering all legal requirements. I believe them when they say they didn't legally acquire the union's documentation on membership. B…

> I know this won't be a popular thing to say, but I'd like to take a moment to thank Songtradr for consulting their lawyers and full-considering all legal requirements.

That's just the bare minimum they have to do to not get sued, is that really thankworthy?

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#159

Post by CPLX »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #156
oblio wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a free-market economy, the companies that make less optimal decisions will have their lunch eaten by those that don't. When the downfall of some of these companies takes more than a life time, who gives a hoot? Lots and lots of companies are starting to be too big to (fully) fail.

It's the end consumer that has to pay for every extra bit of overhead accumulated along the way. And the bill isn't delayed by a lifetime either.

Who pays venture capitalists and executives?

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#160

Post by sgerenser »

ivalm wrote: post #81
derrida wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in the EU it is probably why they have free healthcare, high minimum wage, work weeks of 34-38 hrs, welfare, 8 hour work days, overtime after, high proportion of part time workers, and highest productivity per hour in Germany. But yeah, unions, hate what you gotta hate. I personally hate long hours for bullshit pay.

US median income, even disposable income after all the medical/housing costs, is higher than all of the large EU countries (France, Germany, etc). So if anyone has bullshit pay, it’s the Europeans.

This is certainly the case for tech workers that dominate this site. I’m not sure if it’s certain of the median US worker.
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