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AMD may get across the CUDA moat

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Re: AMD may get across the CUDA moat

#151

Post by viewtransform »

roenxi wrote: post #143
Eisenstein wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't usually get employed to make things with no demand, and people who work for companies with a budget line don't really care how much the nVidia tax is. You can thank hobbyists for creating a lot of demand for compatability with other cards.

There is huge demand for AMD cards that can efficiently multiply matrices together. The issue is that while there are currently isolated cases where people can make them do that, it doesn't seem to be possible at the scale that it needs to happen at. AMD are being dragged along by the market. Willingly, they aren't fighting it, but their focus has been on other areas.

They've shifted a large pool of experienced engineers from legacy software projects to AI and moved the team under a veteran Xilinx AI director. Fingers crossed we should see significant changes in 2024.

Re: AMD may get across the CUDA moat

#152

Post by adamsvystun »

binarymax wrote: post #6

And the question for most that remains once AMD catches up: will the duopoly result in lower prices to a reasonable level for hobbyists or bootstrapped startups, or will AMD just gouge like NVidia?

This is not a binary question. Two players, while not ideal, are better then just one.

Re: AMD may get across the CUDA moat

#153

Post by serf »

mikepurvis wrote: post #127
mathisfun123 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>industrial x86 or Jetson-type machine that's not embedded dev. if you 1. use underpowered devices to perform sophisticated tasks 2. using code/tools that operate at extremely high levels of "abstraction" don't be surprised when all the inherent complexity is tamed using just more layers of "abstraction". if that becomes a problem for your cost/power/space budget then reconsider choice 1 or choice 2.

Not sure this is worth an argument over semantics, but modern "embedded" development is a lot bigger than just microcontrollers and wearables. IMO as soon as you're deploying a computer into any kind of "appliance", or you're offline for periods of time, or you're running on batteries or your primary network connection is wireless... then yeah, you're starting to hit the requirements associated with embedded and need…

fwiw CompTIA classifies an embedded engineer/developer as " those who develop an optimized code for specific hardware platforms."

Re: AMD may get across the CUDA moat

#154

Post by bootsmann »

temp0826 wrote: post #94
PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see these complains from time to time and I never understand them. I've literally been running nvidia on linux since the TNT2 days and have _never_ had this sort of issue. That's across many drivers and many cards over the many many years.

I understand it, but I also haven't had any trouble since I figured out the right procedure for me on fedora (which probably took some time, but it's been so long that I can't remember). Whenever I read people having issues it sounds like they are using a package installed via dnf for the driver/etc. I've always had issues with dkms and the like and just install the latest .run from nvidia's website whenever I have a…

So you don‘t recommend going the rpm-fusion route?

Re: AMD may get across the CUDA moat

#155

Post by gymbeaux »

javchz wrote: post #26

CUDA is the only reason I have an Nvidia card, but if more projects start migrating to a more agnostic environment, I'll be really grateful. Running Nvidia in Linux isn't as much fun. Fedora and Debian can be incredibly reliable systems, but when you add an Nvidia card, I feel like I am back in Windows Vista with kernel crashes from time to time.

I often have issues booting to the installer or first boot after install with an NVidia GPU.

Pop_OS, Fedora and OpenSUSE work out of the box. Those are all Wayland I believe. Debian/Ubuntu distros are a bad time. I think they’re still X11. It’s ironic because X11 is supposed to be the more stable window manager.

Re: AMD may get across the CUDA moat

#156

Post by nightski »

mathisfun123 wrote: post #136
mikepurvis wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure this is worth an argument over semantics, but modern "embedded" development is a lot bigger than just microcontrollers and wearables. IMO as soon as you're deploying a computer into any kind of "appliance", or you're offline for periods of time, or you're running on batteries or your primary network connection is wireless... then yeah, you're starting to hit the requirements associated with embedded and need…

> IMO as soon as you're deploying a computer into any kind of "appliance", or you're offline for periods of time, or you're running on batteries or your primary network connection is wireless yes and in those instances you do not reach for pytorch/tensorflow on top of ubuntu on top of x86 with a discrete gpu and 32gb of ram. instead you reach for C and micro or some arm soc that supports baremetal or at most rtos. th…

Clearly you've never used a Nvidia Jetson and have no idea what it is. You don't need a discrete GPU, it has a quite sophisticated GPU in the SoC. It's Nvidia's embedded platform for ML/AI.

Re: AMD may get across the CUDA moat

#157

Post by ryanjshaw »

IntelMiner wrote: post #59
kinematikk wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source on the stealing part? A quick Google search didn't result in anything

Marcan (of Asahi Linux fame) has talked about it many times before. But an abridged version Fail0verflow demoed how they were able to derive the private signing keys for the Sony Playstation 3 console at I believe CCC Geohot after watching the livestream raced into action to demo a "hello world!" jailbreak application and absolutely stole their thunder without giving any credit

If they demod something then they released it publically and it was fair game?

In any case he absolutely did credit them, it's easily verifiable: https://web.archive.org/web/20110104040706/http://geohot.com...

Sony sued them both, afterall!

Re: AMD may get across the CUDA moat

#158

Post by 22c »

aftbit wrote: post #147
IntelMiner wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marcan (of Asahi Linux fame) has talked about it many times before. But an abridged version Fail0verflow demoed how they were able to derive the private signing keys for the Sony Playstation 3 console at I believe CCC Geohot after watching the livestream raced into action to demo a "hello world!" jailbreak application and absolutely stole their thunder without giving any credit

This apparently worked pretty well for him, as I still remember him primarily as "that guy who hacked PS3". Some people let someone else do the hard technical core, then do all the other easy but boring stuff and claim 100% credit.

I remember geohot as being one of the people who developed a fairly successful jailbreak for iPhone. I understand that iPhone jailbreaking is often standing on the shoulders of predecessors, but I believe he does deserve significant credit for at least one popular iPhone jailbreak.

Re: AMD may get across the CUDA moat

#159

Post by Const-me »

mathisfun123 wrote: post #136
mikepurvis wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure this is worth an argument over semantics, but modern "embedded" development is a lot bigger than just microcontrollers and wearables. IMO as soon as you're deploying a computer into any kind of "appliance", or you're offline for periods of time, or you're running on batteries or your primary network connection is wireless... then yeah, you're starting to hit the requirements associated with embedded and need…

> IMO as soon as you're deploying a computer into any kind of "appliance", or you're offline for periods of time, or you're running on batteries or your primary network connection is wireless yes and in those instances you do not reach for pytorch/tensorflow on top of ubuntu on top of x86 with a discrete gpu and 32gb of ram. instead you reach for C and micro or some arm soc that supports baremetal or at most rtos. th…

The hardware can be fast, actually. Here’s an example of relatively modern industrial x86: https://www.onlogic.com/ml100g-41/ That thing is probably faster than half of currently sold laptops.

However, containers or Ubuntu Linux don’t perform great in that environment. Ubuntu is for desktops, containers are for cloud data centers. An offline stand-alone device is different. BTW, end users don’t typically aware that thing is a computer at all.

Personally, I usually pick Alpine or Debian Linux for similar use cases, bare metal i.e. without any containers.

Re: AMD may get across the CUDA moat

#160

Post by runiq »

withwarmup wrote: post #145

CUDA is the result of years of NVIDIA supporting the ecosystem, some people likes to complain because they bought hardware that was cheaper but can't use it for what they want to use it, when you buy NVIDIA, you aren't buying only the hardware, but the insane amount of work they have put into the ecosystem, the same goes for Intel, mkl and scikit-learn intelex aren't free to develop. AMD has the hardware but the supp…

Yeah, that's a pretty shortsighted take of things. Do you really believe that Nvidia hasn't taken steps do make sure their moat is as wide as possible?
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